Salty Podcast #63 ⛵ Jerome Rand of @SailingIntoOblivian's 29,805-Mile Solo Sail Around the World aboard Mighty Sparrow

The moment Jerome Rand set sail from the United States in his 1975 Westsail 32, he entered a world few modern sailors will ever experience. For 271 consecutive days, battling the planet's most treacherous waters completely alone, Rand wasn't just testing his sailing abilities – he was discovering the very edges of human resilience.

What makes Rand's journey uniquely compelling is his deliberate choice to forego modern sailing advantages. Selecting a heavy, full-keeled vessel over faster alternatives and eschewing sponsors or significant media attention, he sought the authentic experience of circumnavigation from the golden age of solo sailing. As he drifted past Point Nemo – Earth's most isolated spot with 1,600 miles of empty ocean in every direction – Rand wasn't just geographically removed from humanity; he was experiencing a psychological journey equally as profound.

The Southern Ocean was definitely challenging. For four and a half months, Rand battled 30-foot waves and sustained 55-knot winds, listening to the terrifying sound of white water slamming against fiberglass during violent knockdowns. Yet the physical challenges paled compared to the mental battles. "You become a student of what's going on up there," Rand explains, detailing his practice of "control thinking" – focusing on just one ocean, one day, or even one immediate problem rather than the overwhelming entirety of his journey. This mental discipline, coupled with his remarkable ability to find humor in suffering ("This is going to make for a pretty funny story"), carried him through moments that would crush most sailors.

The wisdom Rand gained transcends sailing. His discovery that true disconnection from our hyper-connected world leads to a childlike state of presence – where watching clouds becomes profoundly satisfying – offers a powerful lesson about modern living. Perhaps most inspiring is his message about resources: extraordinary achievements don't require extraordinary means. "You can do these huge things and you don't need every resource on the planet," he insists. "You can start really small and do really big stuff."

Has the chaos of modern life disconnected you from what matters? Listen now as Jerome Rand shares how 30,000 miles of solitude revealed truths about resilience, perspective, and what humans can accomplish with limited resources but unlimited determination.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Meeting Jerome Rand
• 3:16 The Mighty Sparrow: A Vessel Built for Survival
• 11:11 Planning a Solo Circumnavigation
• 21:56 Mental Strategies for Ocean Survival
• 30:19 [Ad] Keep Travelling – Your African Vacation
• 31:05 (Cont.) Mental Strategies for Ocean Survival
• 32:55 Battling the Southern Ocean
• 47:05 Daily Life and Challenges at Sea
• 1:06:28 Learning from Disaster and Close Calls
• 1:18:22 The Joy of Disconnection and Perspective
• 1:26:52 Coaching Sailors and Future Adventures

Transcript

Capn Tinsley: 0:05

Could you spend 271 days alone at sea on a 32-foot sailboat? More importantly, could you battle the Southern Ocean for four and a half months? Well, that's exactly what Jerome Rand did. He's a solo circumnavigator, the author of Sailing into Oblivion and one seriously tough sailor sailing into oblivion and one seriously tough sailor. He faced everything from frustrating but calm conditions to storms, 30-foot waves and brutal 55-knot winds, all trying to break his boat and tear his world apart. We're about to hear his fascinating story, but first, if no BS, sailing stories are your thing, please like, share and subscribe. It seriously helps the channel grow and pass along to that salty sailor in your life. I'm Captain Tinsley of Sailing Vessel Salty Abandoned and Island Packet 320, and this is the Salty Podcast, episode 63. Welcome, jerome Rand of Sailing into Oblivion and the boat that took him around the world a mighty sparrow.

Jerome Rand: 1:01

Like I said, I'm being inspired. One of the best things about collaborating with other podcasters and tellers of stories is that you know it gives the the other person a good idea and like, oh, I should try that or I should try that, so you're doing wonderfully well thank you for having me on the show. I really, really appreciate it. Well, and just real quick, I didn't realize. So it's an island packet that you have. You know, whenever they compare West Sails to modern boats, that's the boat they always use.

Capn Tinsley: 1:33

I was wondering about that because it looked like well, yeah, I know you have a full keel.

Jerome Rand: 1:38

Oh yeah, it is all keel. Actually. They say you could drop a West Sail on its keel and not use jack stands, and it would still stand straight up.

Capn Tinsley: 1:48

Well, that leads me to my very first thing. I want to ask you Describe the Mighty Sparrow. It's a 1971 West sail 32.

Jerome Rand: 1:57

So go ahead Well it's a 1975 and it was just a shade under 50 years old when I took her around the world. And you know I originally was looking for that type of vessel, not specifically a West sail, but I was kind of aiming in that direction after learning that in the perfect storm the actual sailboat in real life was a West sail 32 called Satori, and Satori, even after the captain and crew were pulled off by the Coast Guard, managed to make it through the rest of that storm pretty much undamaged and it beached itself somewhere, I think, on the Jersey shore. They hauled it off of there and took it right back to the Marina. So I was like, well, this is a kind of the vessel I'm looking, because I wasn't looking at trying to break any records or do anything like that.

Jerome Rand: 2:50

I was looking for the experience of doing a solo nonstop around the world in the old fashioned time of the 1960s and 70s, where you might as well have been shooting yourself off into space. And the West sail 32 kind of gave me that old time sailing experience. Um, but also with that safety factor, because she's they were laid up with so much fiberglass I mean it's almost amazing they can even sail through the water. Uh, but if you, if you learn the ways of those old full keel heavy displacement boats, you can actually get them to sail pretty darn well. You can power them up, but they really come into their own when you get into some pretty rough weather.

Jerome Rand: 3:44

And you know, like any boat, a West sail 32 has pros and cons as far as like speed and sea kindliness. They have a tendency with that big rounded bow to to hobby horse if they're trying to go into the wind and waves. But again, when you're surfing down a 25 foot wave in the Southern ocean it definitely comes in handy. You're not pitch pole and you know all that sort of stuff. So, um, you know she's, she's old, but she's definitely tried and true and she's also and I think very important for my trip is that she's very comfortable down below.

Jerome Rand: 4:22

So, I felt like I had quite a bit of space, um, especially for all the food and the spare parts and everything, but also a nice double berth and a nice galley and a nav station and you know if you're going to be out there by yourself for that long. You got to be at least comfortable at least.

Capn Tinsley: 4:41

Do you think it like, compares to an Island packet Like, um, the accommodations are really nice on a. I've never seen a west sail, so would it compare to that? Or a beneteau or as far as accommodations go?

Jerome Rand: 4:53

I think it would compare to the island packet, probably a little more, just because it's really spacious. Most people that come down on Sparrow and take a tour of it, they they're like I can't believe. This is a 32 foot boat and it's beamy and it's got good headroom and you know it. Just, it's a nice, wide, open boat down below, especially Sparrow, because it doesn't have a lot of the extras you know, the shelving units and stuff like that. Shelving units and stuff like that. It's a very bare bones West sail 32. So you definitely have the airy feel down there, so much so that I actually built a giant cabinet that took up about a third of the cabin just for storage and then also to sort of cut the idea of like, if I get, if I get knocked down, I'm not going to get thrown 10 feet to the other side of the boat, I'm only going to go about five feet before I hit the wall here.

Capn Tinsley: 5:51

Yeah, and so I mentioned to you before offline that I read. I will actually listen to your book on Sunday Everybody. By the way, I've included a link below in the description on Facebook and YouTube. If you'd like to buy his book, please use that link. But it is a good read. I listened to it one day on Sunday and I got to tell you, the closer you got to the Southern Ocean, the more stressed out I was. I was right there with you because I've experienced everything you said in shorter increments and I can't imagine four and a half months.

Capn Tinsley: 6:28

but oh my gosh I was stressed because it was, as I would know there was a lot of problems that just the uncomfortable, uncomfortable ability to help me with that word. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, so the and you mentioned when you were below the Pacific Ocean, you just wanted to kind of take a left turn and just go up there to Fiji.

Jerome Rand: 6:52

Yeah, oh yeah, that that's always tempting the whole time.

Capn Tinsley: 6:57

Oh man that was it's amazing the way you tell that story. You were so honest.

Jerome Rand: 7:02

Well, and that's what I really wanted. I was very fortunate that just after I returned I was able to sit down with a very good author named John Eubacon. He wrote the Great Halifax Explosion, amongst other New York Times bestselling books, and he said one of the things with these sailing books is that they tend to get kind of boring and long winded and and I agree with them I mean I'm super passionate about these around the world books, but I know sometimes they're they're a little hard to get through. So he, he kind of guided me a little bit and he was like don't just start, you know, with the beginning of the trip and go all the way through it.

Capn Tinsley: 7:45

I like the way you did it, thank you.

Jerome Rand: 7:48

I mean, in the early days I was like I don't know if this is going to be confusing or not.

Capn Tinsley: 7:52

I was wondering what you thought of that you were like, are you sure?

Jerome Rand: 7:56

I really, you know, it's one of those things where I put that author's note in to sort of explain how the book runs through, and but in to sort of explain how the book runs through and uh, but yeah, I, I wanted to do short chapters, almost as if it was like day by day, so that you know the the audience or the reader has to sort of go through the same experience, because, yeah, I wanted them to feel the stress and the anxiety that I was dealing with it worked. Oh, thank you, Thank you.

Capn Tinsley: 8:22

I was so stressed out, but you, you know, when you were going around cape horn, uh, cope the cape of good hope yeah around to the scary one and then you take us back where you were just starting, across from um new zealand, right past new zealand. I was like no, no, I want, I want him to go up to get again.

Jerome Rand: 8:44

I was it was a real adventure for me.

Jerome Rand: 8:49

I'm so glad. I'm glad you really liked it. I you know. I think my claim to fame as far as from people who have read the book is that there's quite a few lobstermen up in Maine who said, and personally told me, that that it was the first book they read since they were in high school and they were able to read it within just a few days and that meant a lot because, you know, I know, I lived up in Maine for a long time and those guys are pretty rough and tumble and they're not big readers, but they definitely dove into that book.

Capn Tinsley: 9:21

Well, you tell them to listen to it, that's what you tell them and they could do it while they're pulling out the stuff. Yeah, I know, right, exactly.

Jerome Rand: 9:32

But yeah, it was a lot of fun to write it. It was definitely a challenge. But, like I said, I was just trying to do sort of a unique telling of that story. And you know it, those ships logs, that are the, the actual accounts. You know, the cool thing is is I can remember sitting in that bunk and writing under that little tiny light.

Capn Tinsley: 9:55

And I don't know how you made yourself do that in those conditions.

Jerome Rand: 9:59

Oh I well, luckily I don't. I don't suffer from any sort of seasickness, so I never heard you mention that once.

Capn Tinsley: 10:04

Yeah, I, I, and when I don't. I don't suffer from any sort of seasickness, so I never heard you mention that once.

Jerome Rand: 10:06

Yeah, I, I. And when I was younger I got car sick, air sick every kind of sick. My, I must've been a nightmare for my parents and, uh, thankfully, and I guess, for anybody- out there that deals with it. Yeah, sometimes it just goes away.

Capn Tinsley: 10:21

Well, I want to. You mentioned, uh, the old fashioned sailing from the sixties and uh, and I you know, I I've read and watched almost every video on the golden globe race of uh 1968. Yeah, the original scandals and all that stuff and the sad stories. And um then I interviewed Kirsten new Schaefer that oh, yeah, kirsten's great, isn't she? Kirsten Was it 2020 when she won 22.

Capn Tinsley: 10:50

Yeah, it's every four years right, Because it was reinstated in 2018. It was so controversial. Well, and when they did it in 1968, like you said, I don't know if you said it here yet, but you said it in another podcast Nobody thought that it could be done yeah, oh yeah they.

Jerome Rand: 11:07

They had questions about whether a boat could take it, but also, and probably more rightly so, they had questions of whether a human could actually endure the sort of stresses and the isolation that it takes to be able to not only do the southern ocean portion but then the long stretches of the North and South Atlantic Ocean. I mean, that adds so many miles onto that trip. Because, if you recall the, the only stipulation they had for the Golden Globe the original one was that you left from North of 40 degrees North latitude. So that made it so that not only did you have to cross the doldrums twice, but you had a whole like extra ocean that you had to traverse to get you know, to get all the way around the world. And yeah, like I said, I mean I think mine was just a hair under 30,000 miles and that just it's a long time to be out there alone. A lot can be going wrong in your head and that's where I think the real battle really occurs.

Capn Tinsley: 12:11

Oh, yeah, yeah, no doubt. Well, so they didn't have another one until 2018.

Jerome Rand: 12:17

Yep.

Capn Tinsley: 12:18

And um, and because they thought, because it was so controversial and only one boat finished, only one boat caught them is like I don't, I forget how many sunk, um, but so you're tied in with the 2018. I'm just now thinking of this well, I, I moved mine up before? Did you decide before?

Jerome Rand: 12:39

like you knew, this race was gonna happen in the golden globe in 2018 no, not originally so I I had finished the appalachian trail in 2012, and that was when I was thinking okay, well, the next thing is is going around the world, but it's going to take me five, six years to do that, no, this was going to happen again. No, no, not, not even don mcintyre more amazing.

Capn Tinsley: 13:04

So, but here's the thing because they basically did away with it because it was so controversial. And here's you coming along.

Jerome Rand: 13:11

Oh, I think I'll do this well, that's, that's the beauty of that course is it's out there for anybody to do. They don't have to join a race, but I don't.

Jerome Rand: 13:19

I do not recommend it because it's far more risky, uh not having you know this. I mean, don McIntyre does a phenomenal job of coordinating and making sure that if, if things go wrong, he does everything in his power to get get you help when you're down there. And you know that might not mean too much, uh, in the Southern ocean because it is such a ferocious place, but it definitely means something.

Capn Tinsley: 13:46

So yeah, At some point you were how far? 500 miles into the Southern Ocean.

Jerome Rand: 13:55

Well, I mean.

Capn Tinsley: 13:56

I mean at the lowest point.

Jerome Rand: 13:59

Oh, at the lowest point. Yeah, to get around cape horn you have to drop down to just about 57 degrees south latitude. And in the pacific, that's kind of the neat part is when you go right past point nemo, which is the furthest you can get away from land on our planet, and it's about 1600 mile radius all around you of just empty ocean, and I think that equates to about 8.8 million square miles of just you in the ocean.

Capn Tinsley: 14:30

What were you thinking right there? What's going on?

Jerome Rand: 14:33

I thought it was pretty cool. I'm not gonna lie, I thought it was, it was neat to. I got within about 30 miles of that spot. Um, by that point I was pretty well malnourished and cold and ready to get out of the Southern ocean. But it it felt like. It felt. That felt more to me Like I had reached, like, the top of Mount Everest. Um, then, going around Cape Horn, did Cape Horn felt more like I've got back down to base camp and I'm about to, you know, get out of the danger zone. But when I got to Point Nemo, that was, that was a neat feeling.

Capn Tinsley: 15:10

Wow, okay. So um, let's go back in your twenties. You did yacht deliveries and then you spent three years at the Bitter End Yacht Club saving and just really getting lots of experience too.

Jerome Rand: 15:23

So, yeah, that well and that was, and that was the second round at Bitter End I had done five years before that and then came back to actually earn the money for this trip and save it.

Capn Tinsley: 15:35

That's right, yeah, okay, and so you think that all those experiences helped you get ready for this.

Jerome Rand: 15:43

In some ways I mean, that's a whole different type of sailing yeah 80 degrees trade winds.

Jerome Rand: 15:51

I mean the British Virgin Islands, and especially the North Sound on Virgin Gorda where the Bitter End Yacht Club is. I mean you couldn't think of a better sailing arena or venue to just be enjoying warm water, warm weather and and constant trade winds. It's, it's beautiful. Uh, I definitely learned, cause every time I go sailing I always learn something. I've I've never been one of those people that thinks like I've got it all sorted out, like I learn every time I go out there, and you know so. Any time spent on the water was always good, but I actually didn't. I had never really solo sailed on the ocean until I bought Mighty Sparrow. You know nobody wants to lend you their boat to go and see if you can cut your teeth on a trip to Bermuda by yourself.

Capn Tinsley: 16:39

And even when you're moving yachts, there are restrictions of how many people on board, for how long the trip is, oh yeah.

Jerome Rand: 16:45

Yeah, no, I mean for insurance purposes, and stuff I mean. I think, though, if you've done a solo nonstop, people are a little more happy to hand over their boat to you.

Capn Tinsley: 16:56

Gotcha but.

Jerome Rand: 16:57

I haven't run into that Now. When I go out on boats with people, it's to give them the confidence to go out there and gain.

Capn Tinsley: 17:06

Yeah, I was fascinated to hear that you do that and I definitely want to ask you about that. But first, you spent a year retrofitting Mighty Sparrow. Uh, how was that? What do you think? Uh, what single upgrade would you really think helped? What was the game changer out there once you cast off or once you're on the southern ocean?

Jerome Rand: 17:26

uh, I think honestly like so I had originally on the boat. I had an aries wind vane which, unlike the ma or the hydra vein that that is very popular today the aries is a servo pendulum, so it actually utilizes the rudder that's on the boat and a west sail has like a nine foot rudder. It's gigantic, and I had an old one on there and it was pretty pretty much on its last legs and so I got a new one of those and that was probably one of the biggest like confidence builders. It was definitely one of the biggest expenses outside of the it took a beating.

Jerome Rand: 18:05

Oh, it definitely did. But you know I still use it. I've put another 70,000 miles or so on it and it just keeps going and going and going. And you know that. And the new mainsail and staysail, those were the only two new sails that I had. Everything else had to be bought used.

Jerome Rand: 18:32

I was on a really slight budget for this trip and, um, I don't know, I I definitely beefed up a lot of the whisker stays and the boom kin. So on mighty Sparrow, the back stay doesn't just go to the actual hull of the boat, it actually goes to a wooden boomkin. And one of the other nice parts about a West sail as a choice for this, this type of trip, was that there's a huge amount of knowledge and so many boats had, you know, dismasted and they found problems and all that was always logged, and so there were like four decades of people upgrading and fixing and breaking and fixing again and that all was available to me so I could make the improvements that I thought I needed. And you know, for that trip at least, it definitely seemed to pay off.

Capn Tinsley: 19:20

Well, anytime you buy a used boat, once you open up the electrical panel or something, like that you find all kinds of fire hazards and everything. Did that happen to you?

Jerome Rand: 19:29

Definitely so. I purchased the boat in I think it was like December of 2016. And then I had essentially six months in the Caribbean and did about 10,000 miles or so of solo sailing and then took it to Maine and in that time I broke just about everything. I found every leak you know tried and I was trying to do so.

Jerome Rand: 19:56

I wanted to find any weak points before I was actually on the big trip and obviously things still break all the time on a, on a voyage of that length, you know it's one of those where, once you get into that rhythm of like, okay, it broke, I'm going to fix this, you become, I don't know, pretty confident in your abilities to do so and you know you you do start to keep a sharp eye for the things that are going to cause real problems, like, you know, pins falling out or doing those daily checks and all that sort of stuff.

Capn Tinsley: 20:29

Well, now that you mentioned that that's sailing with Phoenix mentioned, that was the biggest piece of advice that he got from you or from anybody, and I've heard it from other people like Kirsten. She said every day she did her jam went up the mast. Even I don't know how often she did that, but how important do you consider that?

Jerome Rand: 20:51

It's absolutely essential. You know it's one of the things that I always talk to anybody that I'm doing coaching or consulting with. If you're on a multi-day trip, where you're out at sea overnight or a week or a month, whatever, every single morning the first thing you do when you have all the light is to go and take a look around at every screw, every pin, every cotter ring just to make sure nothing's worked itself loose. Because there's that constant motion, the boat's always moving and flexing, so many things can wiggle free. And when you do that daily routine of that check, there have been countless times where I find a pin is just about to slide out and actually cause a serious problem and I'm able to just push it right back in.

Jerome Rand: 21:46

Whereas you know the I always tell people the snowball effect out there is very rapid, and the only difference between that and like an actual avalanche is that you end up sinking and so one little thing can lead to this big problem, which then puts you in danger and then things go really wrong. But if you can mitigate that just by taking a lot of times, it's only five, 10 minutes of a quick walk around the deck, just getting your eyes on anything that could move and 99% of the time you're not going to find anything. But that's one of the troubles you start to get complacent when, day after day, it's always looking the same. But you just have to stay diligent.

Capn Tinsley: 22:21

Don't want to know.

Jerome Rand: 22:23

Yeah, yeah, right.

Capn Tinsley: 22:26

Well, that's going to be a tip of the day in a clip right there.

Jerome Rand: 22:29

Do your daily checks.

Capn Tinsley: 22:30

That's a good clip right there.

Jerome Rand: 22:32

And when, when Oliver sent me that picture he, he sent me, he and I were were direct messaging.

Jerome Rand: 22:39

Yeah, and, and he sent a picture of of his pin for his upper shroud and it was missing the cotter pin. And he sent a picture of his pin for his upper shroud and it was missing the cotter pin and he was like, he was like, thank you so much, cause I, when we talked, you know, I and I had said this before the show I didn't want to sit there and try and tell him all the things he needed to do, even though I kind of wanted to. I I was just like what's probably the most important thing, and that important thing and that was the only real advice that I want to give him and it helped.

Capn Tinsley: 23:09

Thank goodness it helped yeah, he did a lot of. He mentioned you several times about that advice, so you'll probably get some clients maybe who knows?

Jerome Rand: 23:21

I'd love to get out on a boat with him someday maybe our paths will cross.

Capn Tinsley: 23:25

Sure, why not? All you got to do is fly to Hawaii.

Jerome Rand: 23:28

Yeah, I know Right.

Capn Tinsley: 23:30

Before sailing around the world. You didn't try for sponsors and you wanted to be independent, which I totally respect. You didn't want people telling you what to do. Tell me about that uh.

Jerome Rand: 23:47

So yeah, that was kind of I.

Jerome Rand: 23:48

I had a kind of mixed emotions about that, because I did have a few people reach out when they they did find out about the trip and kind of offer a few things.

Jerome Rand: 23:53

But I, I just I wanted this trip to be really based on that solo aspect and I wanted to keep it as pure as possible. Um, I think I didn't really understand how sponsorships worked and all I could think of is, oh, these people are going to make me do this and they're going to want me to do that, and I didn't want this trip to be sort of tainted by any of that. And I kind of also had in the back of my mind I didn't know that I would do as much speaking as I do now, but when I speak at schools and especially to younger kids, it's nice to be able to relay just how much you can do when you don't start with very, when you start with very little. So you can do these huge things and you don't need every resource on the planet to do it. You can start really small and do really big stuff.

Capn Tinsley: 24:51

Okay, that's another tip of the day right there. Awesome, I love that. So I'm glad you did it that way and you didn't announce it to many people.

Jerome Rand: 25:02

No, I just you know, this was pre any social media really that I had and again, because my, my resources were limited, it was before Starlink. The whole idea of of trying to blast out this stuff was pretty much non-existent at that point, and I don't know.

Capn Tinsley: 25:24

It was because you were thinking if you decide not to do the whole thing, wasn't it that well, not so much that if I decide not to, but if I didn't make it um because I figured my chances of success being just a lone sailor on another podcast you were saying most people don't make it.

Jerome Rand: 25:43

Well cause and and the vast majority of that's just going to be equipment failure. There's a million things that can go wrong. I could get sick, I could hurt myself and I just figured you know what? Uh, I'll, I'll tell everybody about it when I get back. Um, I don't need to tell everybody about it before I go. But it did it got out though, didn't it?

Capn Tinsley: 26:02

It got out while you were a little bit.

Jerome Rand: 26:04

Yeah, cause I I was always making sure that, like my family members and stuff knew what was going on each day and they were posting like a little blurb on, I think, facebook at the time, but it was, it was small, I mean, when I got back, I think there might've been 50 people there or something like that, and and that was fine, that was a was an easier transition for me to make, especially after being out there for so long.

Capn Tinsley: 26:29

Yeah Well, and you talked a lot about um and you know you, I think you have to be a mental giant to to discipline your thinking on that trip, and you mentioned you practice, control thinking. It was like one ocean at a time or one day at a time oh yeah, talk about that, because that I mean just thinking about you going and you're like oh, I got 4 000 miles to go across the pacific yeah, you can't think like that, yeah, and, and so I mean it all, start it.

Jerome Rand: 27:01

Really it hits you like a ton of bricks the minute you get out there and you start looking and considering this voyage in its entirety. And you know when we plan these trips. Obviously you got the world maps out and you're looking at everything. You're like holy cow, but you have to plan this whole thing out, to plan this whole thing out. But when you get out there and you clock in for day one, I was filled with so much anxiety and fear and I was thinking about Cape Horn. I was thinking about all this stuff while I was in the Atlantic Ocean and the weather was fine. And to dampen down those anxieties and those fears, what I started to do, like you said, was just shrink down my focus. So instead of thinking of the whole world that I was trying to go around, I thought about just the North Atlantic Ocean. And when things were really crummy, I'd think about just this day, or this little squall that I'm going through, or this project that I have to fix to get the boat back going and captain's log.

Jerome Rand: 28:05

Oh yeah, constantly, and it helped to ease it.

Capn Tinsley: 28:09

That takes a lot of discipline right there, especially when you're big waves or uncomfortable.

Jerome Rand: 28:14

Oh yeah, Well, I had. I had some damage occur when I was trying to duck underneath tropical cyclone Ophelia, which ended up turning into a hurricane, and and you know, I only got touched by the outskirts of it, but I had some equipment failure and and you're just thinking what am I doing out here, and all these negative thoughts, and it's your brain, I think, just trying to protect you because it knows you're doing something pretty dangerous. But that's when you kind of have to be a student of what's going on up there and start playing with different ways to kind of convince yourself. And because it's all about trying to ease those worries and ease those, those anxieties, to get to that place where you can sleep and you can focus on what you're doing and and you know, to be honest, also enjoy yourself, so you're not just sitting there riddled.

Capn Tinsley: 29:05

Remind yourself. Oh, enjoy yeah.

Jerome Rand: 29:08

I'm on the adventure. I'm supposed to be doing this, but one of the aspects that I I didn't realize until later was these fears of going into the Southern ocean. That were were really those were were pretty scary the whole time I was going down the Atlantic and what I once I kind of got over that and I just kept going.

Jerome Rand: 29:32

By the time I got down there, because I had just focused on each day, I had spent 60, 70 days at sea continuously and by the time I got to the Southern ocean I was such a better sailor and I think that that can be converted over to any challenge in any walk of life of like, okay, yeah, it's really hard in the beginning, but as long as I don't quit every day, I'm getting this practice and I'm getting this, this experience that you know, when it comes time for the busy season or you know the crunch time or panic situations, well, I'm already I'm going to be in much better shape to deal with that, and that was something I didn't know before. But I definitely took that away when I, when I finished.

Capn Tinsley: 30:59

Oh my gosh. Um so, uh, here's a question Weather window chess. How did you pick your launch day while three Atlantic storms were swirling? Yeah?

Jerome Rand: 31:12

that, unfortunately, that was one of those things where, when you decide to do a trip like this and leave from the United States, the East Coast, I mean, you're at mother nature's whim. And we had, we had hurricane irma, we had maria. I had to wait for hurricane jose to pass by and it was just like the one window, because if you leave too late, you get to cape horn too late. You know, when they leave for the golden globe, they outside of the first one, which they, admittedly, you know they went way too early in 2018. But they, you know, leaving in like August 68 in 68, you could leave.

Jerome Rand: 31:53

It was like May until, yeah, I think the deadline was October 31st or something, but they're, they're typically outside of the hurricane path. Yeah, definitely compared to leaving from the States. And as soon as I had that window, it was October 3rd and I was just like, well, this is it. And then Hurricane Ophelia came up. So it was definitely a bit dicey, but I think that added to the challenge and as an American sailor, that was something I really wanted to do. I wasn't going to bend on like, oh, I'm not going to leave from the United States. It was like, oh, I'm definitely leaving from the US.

Capn Tinsley: 32:32

Got to do it. First time you realized there's no turning back now. What triggered it?

Jerome Rand: 32:41

I think it was probably just the first day as soon as the horizon emptied out of all land. It was kind of like here we are, we're in it.

Capn Tinsley: 32:49

You look back and you say is this a good idea?

Jerome Rand: 32:54

There were times where I was questioning my life choices. No, I think honestly, the time at which you really feel committed is when you get um just East of the Cape of good hope and you've only got the Indian ocean in front of you. You can't really turn around because you know you're not. You're going against the Westerlies at that point.

Capn Tinsley: 33:19

Right.

Jerome Rand: 33:20

And you just you kind of buckle in for the ride and you know, usually it takes the first or second big gale to to come over the top of you and let you know exactly where you are in this world and how little you actually mean that. Um, you're sort of like okay, well, let's do this and let's do that Going across the Gulf of Mexico.

Jerome Rand: 33:43

Oh, I'll bet I will. And you know, honestly, isn't that one of the funnest things. Like, you don't have to go to a place like the Southern ocean to find some real adventure on a sailboat. You could find it anywhere in the world.

Capn Tinsley: 33:56

Yeah, there was vertical lightning involved.

Jerome Rand: 34:00

Oh, when was that?

Capn Tinsley: 34:12

2019 or something like that also not that long ago. No, I I've been going um every year, except for last year, to the keys from orange beach, alabama, um, and I was going across every year. I've been making that trip and I went across the to the bahamas, but coming back clear water to destin, it was gonna take about two days. I got about 12 hours out there in the middle of the night, so calm. All of a sudden, something changed.

Jerome Rand: 34:33

Yeah, yeah.

Capn Tinsley: 34:35

There was no wind, but all of a sudden the Gulf just turned into a like a blender and vertical lightning in front of me and I thought, well, I could push forward, but that vertical lightning looks a little scary. Well then I just stopped. And then it started moving towards me and it chased me all the way back to the coast of Florida. I was so mad. I wasted 12 hours, plus 12 more hours.

Jerome Rand: 34:59

Well, it's one of those things where Mother Nature is going to dish out whatever she feels like. She's got her own plan oh, 100%, and we just have to deal with where mother nature is going to dish out whatever she feels like.

Jerome Rand: 35:06

She's got her own plan, oh 100% and we just have to deal with it and do what we can. And you know, I work with a lot of people that have had bad experiences out there as beginners and they're you know, a lot of people are ready to throw in the towel. They're like this I don't know what we were thinking and to be able to bring people back from the edge there and be like, well, let's go out there and let's work on these basics and let's get that confidence up, and to see people then be like, oh man, we're planning our next trip or they'll send pictures from, like the Bahamas, and it is the most amazing feeling that you know you're able to help out with that, even in just like the smallest way, just by being there on the boat for a few days. It's so cool.

Capn Tinsley: 35:55

Well, you I heard you say that and maybe it was with the Appalachian trail you learned that being uncomfortable. I forget how you put it learned that being uncomfortable, I forget how you put it and I can't find my notes, but you got to keep the end, the goal, in mind, and that's what I think when I'm uncomfortable going across the Gulf. I'm going to get to the West coast of Florida and it's beautiful and it's. The anchorages are great and the weather and the beaches and you have, and you got to want to be there and you got to. You've got to have some moxie and it's not for everybody, wouldn't you say.

Jerome Rand: 36:30

I would definitely agree, and it's one of those things where I not only like to sort of project myself to the place that I'm intending on going and the goal that I'm trying to reach, but sometimes, if that's not enough, I'll actually project myself to okay, well, let's say I bail on this and I, you know, pull in here, or I call the coast guard, or I do this or that. What am I going to feel like the next day?

Jerome Rand: 36:55

And I had to do that a lot in the Southern ocean, Cause that's, you know, like I said, we the whole time you're going across the Pacific, there's there's Fiji and Tonga and Tahiti and all these places, and all you got to do is turn North and you'll get to them.

Capn Tinsley: 37:12

And it gets warm immediately and it's.

Jerome Rand: 37:15

You know, it's one of those where I constantly was like, well, if I do that, yeah, it's going to be pretty nice for a little bit, but then how am I going to feel afterwards? And that that definitely helped, because sometimes you can't. It can't just be like all imaginary, like, oh, I'm going to make it and it's going to be great. Sometimes you have to challenge yourself and say, well, yeah, I know you want to go through the Panama canal and not go around Cape Horn, but what's that going to be like? Let's just try and break that apart.

Capn Tinsley: 37:43

And then you know yeah, oh, I'm sure have you been expensive.

Jerome Rand: 37:47

Yeah, you've been through having you know, but I've interviewed people.

Capn Tinsley: 37:51

It's on my list, I'm I'm going to make mine too. But I've interviewed quite a few people that have done it, and you've got to wait, you got to pay. I think the price is about to come down, though, but, but you know, not everybody has that ability, that mental toughness. So I mean props to you.

Jerome Rand: 38:10

You know that you have Well it wasn't anything that I I knew beforehand. I mean, the only thing I could ever say about myself is that, even since I was like a teenager, I had the ability to look at a situation where I was either suffering or there was a lot of discomfort, and a normal person would be pretty upset and do whatever they could to get out of that.

Capn Tinsley: 38:38

That's what you said. I think you said it in the book.

Jerome Rand: 38:40

I somehow just kind of was like this is going to make for a pretty funny story. How much worse can this get? And I would just start laughing.

Capn Tinsley: 38:46

I would think like this is going to make for a pretty funny story.

Jerome Rand: 38:47

How much worse can this get, and I would just start laughing. I would think like this is hilarious.

Capn Tinsley: 38:51

Nobody would believe this. All these things broke.

Jerome Rand: 38:54

Now I do think that this is going to make a great video when I get back, yeah right and I think that's what it comes down to is your perspective, and the nice part about perspective in any situation is that you can change it and you can adapt it to make it so that you can either, you know, feel positive about the situation or at least shine a little bit of light, because it's all just tricks that you're trying to play on your own brain to get you through, so that you can just hold tight for that little bit until it changes. And that's I think that's something you would agree on is that the ocean, no matter what, it's always going to change. You know, the storm is always going to break, the calm is always going to end.

Capn Tinsley: 39:37

Forecast is not going to be right.

Jerome Rand: 39:38

Yeah, forecast is definitely going to be right, but it's always going to change. So whatever you're dealing with that's so miserable at the moment is not going to last. So whatever you're dealing with that's so miserable at the moment is not going to last, and all you have to do is make it to that final little point and then it changes and then you're going to be all good. So you know kind of.

Capn Tinsley: 39:55

well, you're so right. It's just like anything in life, it's perspective.

Jerome Rand: 39:59

Yeah, yeah.

Capn Tinsley: 40:00

You're so right. Uh, let's see what we got here um when the wind hit 55 knots yeah oh my gosh, how'd you keep you from falling apart?

Jerome Rand: 40:15

uh, you know I went on a.

Capn Tinsley: 40:17

I was on my last boat in hurricane sally oh, really, I was tied up and the lines broke and it was 115, no 110. 110. And that's a whole different deal. On a boat, yeah, because I live in a hurricane zone. If you're on land I mean that's a lot, but on a boat it's a lot. Totally different, yeah, the sound, the sound alone, you know.

Jerome Rand: 40:42

Well, my, yeah, my senses start to get heightened when the winds reach about 30 knots and as it goes up and up and up. Yeah, I mean that one of the things that always gets in my head is the sound and I couldn't even imagine I I've never heard or been in wind anywhere near 115 knots or anything like that.

Capn Tinsley: 41:06

But yeah, when it gets up, what comes with wind, big waves big waves.

Jerome Rand: 41:11

Yeah, well, on that one, I mean, geez, when it gets that windy it's just spray. I mean the waves are just getting chopped in half, but um, it was like I was in the gulf I was.

Capn Tinsley: 41:20

I could see the, the, the bridge to the Gulf, the pass, but the waves were like I was in the Gulf, it was crazy.

Jerome Rand: 41:32

How long did it?

Capn Tinsley: 41:33

last All night.

Jerome Rand: 41:36

Oof.

Capn Tinsley: 41:36

Wow, yeah, and the lines broke all on the port side, and so we were playing cowboy for two hours. Oh jeez. But, there's no pulling or anything, it's just like you can get them on there, pull as tight as you can, and that's all you can do.

Jerome Rand: 41:55

Yeah, yeah Well and sometimes that's even what you kind of have to do out on the ocean is just you go with whatever plan you have for how it's going. So when the winds crept up and got into the steady 50 knot range and it's gusting higher, but the sustained winds are in that 50 knot range I couldn't even have any mainsail. Up and I'm going downwind. I'd have a teeny little storm jib that was sheeted right to midships and so it wasn't really catching the wind, but it was helping to keep the bow pointed downwind. And you know the seas just keep building up. But you're listening to that noise?

Capn Tinsley: 42:39

And it's very stressful.

Jerome Rand: 42:40

I spent most of the time down below, but there was one night in particular that, as the wind started to drop off, the waves were still there and the pressure of just pretty much the bare poles wasn't enough to keep us in front of the big breakers and and let us kind of surf our way out of it. And that was where you know you're taking notes from the past. Sailors like bernard mortissier, his epic tale of you know you're taking notes from the past. Sailors like bernard morticia, his epic tale of you know, cutting the, the drogues that he was towing behind joshua and and that allowed the boat freedom and and all this sort of stuff.

Jerome Rand: 43:17

And I'm like, well, I might as well try, and so I had to go and put a little bit of mainsail up. And you know, you, you do these things and and sometimes you have to adapt and the plan you came up with isn't working anymore. But that's where I always like to have like two or three different game plans or options, like whether it be heaving two um or four reaching or just changing the sale plan. But you know, ideally whatever you choose is going to kind of work and you can spend the vast majority of the time either down below or right in the companion way, because if I don't have to be up on deck when the weather gets really bad, I definitely don't want to be.

Capn Tinsley: 43:58

Well, you mentioned that. You were sitting there below and all of a sudden it's like a bus hit you. It was so loud.

Jerome Rand: 44:05

The knockdowns are always always pretty scary, I mean even in a boat as as overbuilt and heavy displacement as a West sail, it's still. It's fiberglass. And when water, when a wall of of whitewater hits it, it's so loud. I'll never get the sound of those knockdowns out of my head. I can always just close my eyes and picture and hear it and the force you know it's. It's absolutely astounding that something like water can actually impact something that hard, but it it, it definitely can.

Capn Tinsley: 44:38

And they're just thinking what just broke?

Jerome Rand: 44:40

Yeah.

Capn Tinsley: 44:42

And then it's hard to it must've been hard to go do a check.

Jerome Rand: 44:46

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, and then it must have been hard to go do a check. Well, your adrenaline's pumping at that point, so you just rely on that. You get up there, you do your checks and, like I said, with the Westdale being so built up, the first knockdown that I received in the Indian Ocean, I think we might have popped an agrometer or two or something out of a spray skirt, but that was it. The second one in the Pacific, that one definitely was a bit more um eyeopening, if you will, and and led me to change you know the course and and change the sail plan, because I knew it was just going to keep happening if I didn't change up what was going on.

Capn Tinsley: 45:27

You mean the surfing like going with the waves? Yeah, Did you change your trajectory?

Jerome Rand: 45:38

Essentially, the winds had started to drop off, so I wasn't going fast enough when the big breakers came up and the wave is nice and steep. I want Sparrow to be in the rhythm with that. So she'll surf, surf and she'll surf really fast. But she needs that. She needs enough sail to be able to do that, especially in the big breaking waves and you know, outside of what happened to me in 2022, and that was completely being in the Gulf stream and all that sort of stuff Normal ocean waves, I think, give you the opportunity to fine-tune your speed, your sail plan, so that you can get into the rhythm with the wave and stay kind of in this safe zone and a lot of the racing boats will tell you that speed is your friend in a lot of those situations.

Capn Tinsley: 46:26

When I was first time I went across the Gulf and it was um kind of a nightmare, but uh, we had to change our trajectory. Um, I usually say sell solo, but on that trip I was my first one going across.

Jerome Rand: 46:40

Yeah.

Capn Tinsley: 46:40

We were in the trough and we we got to change that. You know. We got to not be, you know, because you could be, you could be. What did you call? What's the word you used? Pitch pole knock oh, knock down, knock down knock down yeah when you're parallel to the way oh yeah, absolutely yeah but pitch pole? Yeah, that would be scary too, pitch pole would be a scary one.

Jerome Rand: 47:01

luckily mighty sparrows got a really rounded bow and you know I've gotten I don't want to say I've gotten like the boat almost vertical on a wave, but there's been some pretty incredible waves that I've surfed down and hit high teens, even the low 20s, with boat speed. And I don't ever worry about her going end over end, probably because I haven't seen big enough waves.

Capn Tinsley: 47:28

Now doesn't that stress out the hole when you go over that full speed?

Jerome Rand: 47:32

Oh my gosh, yeah, Did you find any cracks after that. No, not from that. I found cracks in some of the bulkheads and things like that, after some of the knockdowns, some of the impacts, after some of the knockdowns, some of the impacts, and that's just where the bulkhead is fiberglassed into the hall. The stringers or not stringers, but the tabs, those cracked off the hall. But the hall on a West Sale again, it's just absolutely so overbuilt and strong.

Capn Tinsley: 48:00

No cracks on deck or anything in the fiberglass?

Jerome Rand: 48:04

No, not really. Or anything in the fiber? Um, no, not really. I you know not until when, when I was turned upside down, there was a lot of stuff ripped clean off of the deck. But as far as the actual structure, um, she's always been able to stand up to whatever, whatever I get thrown into. So kudos to the west sail that is one tough boat yeah, oh yeah um frustrating doldrums.

Capn Tinsley: 48:29

It's not worse. Do you think that was worse than being in you know?

Jerome Rand: 48:35

it's difficult because you know I have a bittersweet relationship with the doldrums, because you know, as a sailor and doing it, you know, without really utilizing my engine for propulsion yeah, the doldrums.

Jerome Rand: 48:47

Sometimes you're sitting there for two days in a row, sometimes more. You're not making any progress and it's it's kind of annoying. It's hot, but then on the other side you have these beautiful cloud formations and these sunrises and sunsets, and there I think it was 2020 when I was out there and there was one night where the sea had gone so flat and the stars were so bright that you could not tell the reflection from the actual sky and it, honest to goodness, felt like I was floating in outer space. And when you get to experience little things like that, for me it makes all sort of the annoyance of the stop and go, sailing, the intense squalls, the lightning. It makes it all worth it because you know you're you're earning that one perfect moment or that one really nice night, and so I, you know, I kind of look at them again through that sort of perspective. But it is troubling when you're trying to get to one place and the world will not let you go there and it's just not giving you what you need.

Capn Tinsley: 50:01

Yeah, especially that first time you went into the doldrums around the equator. Yeah, oh yeah when you hadn't even gotten to the Southern Ocean. That must have been really frustrating, it's like, let me just get down there. Let me get started.

Jerome Rand: 50:15

Yeah Well, because you know, and again, with doing these sort of trips, that route especially, and doing it in an older boat, you're not racing against anybody, but you're racing against the seasons because you are trying to get to. Cape Horn and out of the Southern ocean before the winter time and you know, ideally you're going to be a Cape Horn between, like, december and February. That's the peak of the summer down there. It's going to be your best window and I I don't. I think.

Capn Tinsley: 50:46

I got there.

Jerome Rand: 50:46

Oh, it's still cold, for sure, and some of the old down there it's going to be your best window, and I I don't. I think I got there right. Oh, it's still cold for sure, and some of the old old uh cape horners talked about, even though in the summertime the the overall intensity of the southern ocean isn't quite as bad as the winter, you can still have some of the most violent, intense storms that they'd ever seen. I think that was the advice they gave to Bernard Moticier when he was going down there, and so you just try and get around in the best window. I didn't get there until April 7th, I think is when I rounded Cape Horn, and I didn't get out of the Southern ocean until another week or 10 days after that.

Capn Tinsley: 51:24

Well, I interviewed do you know Abby um uh, tanya Abby.

Jerome Rand: 51:30

Uh, I don't know her, but I know of her yeah.

Capn Tinsley: 51:32

Okay, well, I got to interview her.

Jerome Rand: 51:34

Oh, wow.

Capn Tinsley: 51:35

I know I was like. So I read her book in 2014 and I got my first boat in 2015. And there were, there was one, there was, there was several things that I, you know she has no gps for anybody that doesn't know. She was in the 80s, 1980s. She went around the world, yeah, she stopped, you know, and it took her three years, but that's you know. That was fine, um, but she didn't have a motor going up across the pacific. Um, no gps, you know. But, um, she talked about, you know, and of course she didn't have starlink or anything there was, and of course she didn't have Starlink or anything. There was no communication. Absolutely, she didn't have any.

Jerome Rand: 52:09

Yeah.

Capn Tinsley: 52:10

One thing she talked about was how she was. Whatever you were doing, you were so in the moment. You know it's 30 days across the Pacific Like she was brushing her hair. This was the exact sample. That's all you're doing. You're so in the present. She was making soup. That's it. Did you experience that?

Jerome Rand: 52:28

at all. Oh, absolutely, I mean you know, outside of in the morning, at 8 am Michigan time, I had to send a quick little text.

Capn Tinsley: 52:37

To your brother right.

Jerome Rand: 52:39

Well, to my parents, to make sure that they knew, because they, you know, and still, still, to this day. Just the other day, my mom was uh talking to me and she was like you remember how little sleep I got the whole time. You're out there and you know that vacation to sleep.

Capn Tinsley: 52:57

Oh, it was it was bad.

Jerome Rand: 52:59

You know and that is a warning to any any young people out there that want to go on adventure just remember you might have a family member that is going to be riddled with worry, but she understood this was something I needed to go do, so she wasn't going to impede me on that, but she definitely had those rules Like every day 8 am Michigan time. I get a text position report, all that sort of stuff and but outside of that I was just in it and I am the moment.

Jerome Rand: 53:33

Yeah, I haven't changed that since and I've. You know I I sail quite a bit still a lot of long passages, sometimes up to like 88 days or so, and I still uh part of me, especially after seeing like Oliver's trip kind of like man, maybe I should be posting some of this stuff while I'm out there, but I've never made the leap.

Jerome Rand: 53:55

I've never gone to try and be able to upload things while I'm out at sea, cause there is something to be said about that, I think. When you go out there at least for my own experience I'm looking for the disconnect, because I know how my brain changes and how things slow down and, even though you're on a boat, I get on more of an even keel when I'm out there Because, like you said, I'm in the moment I am noticing the clouds. There's none of the fast paced clutter of normal modern society and technology just constantly hitting me, and it's something that I crave. And usually when I get out there, I'm kind of like, oh, I can't wait to get back and watch some YouTube or something like that, but the times that I'm out there, I cherish those. I really do.

Capn Tinsley: 54:47

Well, I'm jealous. I'm jealous that you're able just to disconnect for that long. I'm a real estate agent, so there has to be some connectivity.

Jerome Rand: 54:54

Yeah, oh, yeah, well, and as a podcaster, yeah.

Capn Tinsley: 54:59

It pays for the sailing. You know what I'm saying, right?

Jerome Rand: 55:01

Right, well, and that's yeah. That's one of the things I think. If, if I get to go out for a longer trip this winter, um, you know, the one thing I was thinking is, boy, if I had starlink, I could do the podcast and keep uploading it while I was out there. But you know, then then it's like, well, if I'm going to do that, why don't I upload for instagram or youtube, and I don't know. Then then all of a sudden, I'm in that, that thinking of, like well, shoot, I'm going to miss out on all that, that being in the moment sort of thing, and because you have to be, you have to be bored, you have to be not able to look at the screen.

Jerome Rand: 55:42

Yeah, Because you. It takes my brain about five days before I get into that normal childlike sort of mental I. What do I call it? It's like it's not exactly meditation, but it's oh low level input brain mode where I'm looking at a cloud and it is the greatest thing I've seen in the longest time and I can just watch it for hours without without feeling bored moments of it, you know.

Jerome Rand: 56:10

Yeah, well, I think I think all of us had it when we were kids and then you know when, when the afternoon would seemingly last forever, where it was like, oh, we got all afternoon and riding your bikes or doing this or that and it seemed like time was super slow. Well, that's kind of how I feel when I go out there after a week or so alone at sea. Yeah, those sunrises and sunsets at sea and I saw that video that you put up.

Capn Tinsley: 56:39

I used it on the thumbnail.

Jerome Rand: 56:42

Oh, that big orange sky.

Capn Tinsley: 56:44

And you were like this is why I come, come out here that was a rough couple of days.

Jerome Rand: 56:51

Uh, I'm trying. I can't even remember which trip that was, but that was. That was squalls and just shifting winds and then calms, but it blessed me with that beautiful sunset that night.

Capn Tinsley: 57:04

And it was.

Jerome Rand: 57:04

It was so orange and so overwhelming.

Capn Tinsley: 57:07

Like it was orange. It's just amazing.

Jerome Rand: 57:10

So orange.

Capn Tinsley: 57:11

Well, I've got some rapid fire questions here.

Jerome Rand: 57:14

Sure Sure.

Capn Tinsley: 57:15

All right, so short answers are fine.

Jerome Rand: 57:17

Got it.

Capn Tinsley: 57:18

What's the first thing you miss after a week alone at, say, at sea?

Jerome Rand: 57:22

Ooh, first thing I miss probably pizza. I think pizza is always going to be number one there.

Capn Tinsley: 57:29

Okay, worst kind of breakdown to face completely solo.

Jerome Rand: 57:34

Probably the scariest one was just past New Zealand, my computer that I was getting weather files and forecasting on basically stopped working blue screen and the backup computer, from what I was told, would not do it and I thought, oh man, I'm not going to have any weather reporting for the rest of the world and that was terrifying you figured it out, you yeah, after just trial and error your satellite phone.

Capn Tinsley: 58:04

You made it like everybody said it wouldn't work and you're like what else am I gonna do?

Jerome Rand: 58:09

even the company said it wouldn't work with that computer. So who knows?

Capn Tinsley: 58:14

awesome. You have to read the book to know what we're talking about. Um piece of gear that gives you the biggest peace of mind offshore.

Jerome Rand: 58:20

I think you already answered that uh well, I the aries is is great because it steers the boat, but the AIS is probably the best for peace of mind.

Capn Tinsley: 58:30

Sure, More mentally draining, frustrating but calm conditions or 30 foot storm seas. I did already ask you that.

Jerome Rand: 58:37

Oh, the becalmed for sure. If you're trying to get anywhere. If you got time on your hands and it doesn't matter, I'll be becalmed all day long. But if you're trying to get from point A to point B, that becalmed is so tough to deal with.

Capn Tinsley: 58:52

Daily tasks that become shockingly hard when you're alone Brushing your teeth. No, I've never had trouble with the routine.

Jerome Rand: 59:03

You didn't bathe, but I probably the most time consuming, honestly, is trying to do a quality load of laundry out there on the boat. It's like an all day affair to try and get it dry and salt free and all that stuff.

Capn Tinsley: 59:18

That was quite a process.

Jerome Rand: 59:20

That made me never take for granted a washer and dryer. Never take for granted a washer and dryer.

Capn Tinsley: 59:25

So tip of the day, you mentioned that if you hang them up in the sails, all the crystals of the salt comes off, or something like that Well, yeah, they'll start.

Jerome Rand: 59:40

As long as they're shaking, they have to stay up there for hours. But I would do my laundry in salt water and as long as it's up there for long enough and it shakes all the salt crystals free, then it won't retain the dampness and all that.

Capn Tinsley: 59:52

Well, I heard it, I read somewhere they would put it in a bucket and close it up and then throw it over with a line and it would just be like a washing machine out there.

Jerome Rand: 1:00:02

Oh, that's a good idea. I never thought about that.

Capn Tinsley: 1:00:05

Make sure the lid closes, you know excuse me. Yeah, you don't want to lose them all yeah okay, how do you stay sharp without burning out on solo night watches?

Jerome Rand: 1:00:22

uh, I sleep most nights while I'm out there and and if I'm alone, my normal sleep schedule is 11 midnight. That's when I'm going to try and bunk down, if mother nature will let me, and then I'm usually asleep for an hour or two at a time and I just come up, take a look around. If nothing's changed the sky looks clear, I'll go right back down and I'll do that all night until sunrise. The sky looks clear, I'll go right back down and I'll do that all night until sunrise. But if I'm on a delivery or something like that and I'm out there and I'm actually doing a night watch where I have to sit in the cockpit for three hours, it's all about music podcasts, audio books, and that usually makes the time go by.

Capn Tinsley: 1:01:05

Okay, that makes sense. Scary. It's noise you've heard on the boat in the dark.

Jerome Rand: 1:01:10

Oh for sure, it's the whales. There was a time, though, at the in the doldrums where I'm just sitting there floating no, no sails up or anything. And then I start here like, and it just kept getting bigger and louder and closer, and it was like a whole pod of dolphins that we kind of just slowly drifted into. They were all asleep, but they're at the surface and they're just popping their little spouts and I did not know what that was for quite some time and it was definitely freaking me out.

Capn Tinsley: 1:01:42

You were afraid it was whales.

Jerome Rand: 1:01:44

I didn't know what it was. I was just like what is that noise?

Capn Tinsley: 1:01:52

it's a monster. Hello from san diego. We'll catch up after you finish. Do you know this, barbara benedict?

Jerome Rand: 1:01:58

uh, hello from san diego barbara. Uh, I don't know, caught me on the spot.

Capn Tinsley: 1:02:09

Oh man, I didn't mean to put you on the spot like that.

Jerome Rand: 1:02:10

Oh, no Sorry.

Capn Tinsley: 1:02:11

Barbara, but oh nope, I'm sorry, I got a little cough and I'm trying to you guys if you would ask questions. We definitely want. This is an interactive podcast. We got several, you know lots of people watching and if you want to ask him a question, please, oh, found you through SWP Salem with Phoenix.

Jerome Rand: 1:02:40

Oh yeah, there you go, yeah pretty amazing how many eyes he had on him for sure, oh my gosh. We talked afterwards. That was definitely pretty incredible For him to leave, basically just a sailor, and then arrive a month later, famous like that.

Capn Tinsley: 1:03:01

Well, you and I both interviewed him three times. What intrigued you? I know why you intrigued me, but, like with all your experience, what intrigued you? Uh, in the beginning.

Jerome Rand: 1:03:12

I think it was just the, the fact that he was going for it, that he he had mentioned on one of his videos that he had very little experience. But you know, life was was too precious, and he was like I'm, I'm going for it, and anybody that's going to go for it like that and say they're going to do it, I, I want to find out why and what motivates them and cause so many of us, don't we? We, we think of all the reasons why we shouldn't.

Jerome Rand: 1:03:40

There's a lot of talkers we, we, we think of all the reasons why we shouldn't. There's a lot of talkers, oh for sure, and and and that is okay, because I know a lot of people that want to be on the dock working on their boat, talking about the adventure that they know they're never going to go on, but that's where they want to be. Right, phoenix or not? Phoenix? Sorry, oliver is definitely in the other boat where he's like I got to go do this, I got to change my life, and so I just reached out and thankfully, he hit me up and then, yeah, it was cool because we do the podcast, but then we talk for a while afterwards and it was great to kind of just be there with him and messaging back and forth and I can't wait to see where else he goes.

Capn Tinsley: 1:04:24

Yeah, I think the first time I saw him was maybe October or September and I saw that post where he had like gave up my job emptied out the 401k, which he was, you know. Let's just let's face it. I mean, let's be honest, he was a genius at that whole social media thing oh he, he definitely did a great well and he was really diligent.

Jerome Rand: 1:04:47

You know, it's very easy to get kind of bored and think like, oh man, you know, I don't know if any of this is working who's listening?

Jerome Rand: 1:04:55

yeah, and you don't want to be sitting there repeating it and stuff. But I think he, I think he kind of had it in the game plan and he was like you know what, this is what I'm gonna try and do, let's just keep doing it. And he was diligent and uh, and he was very authentic. He wasn't. He wasn't like dude, I'm, you know, living my best life in the, in the columbia river gorge, and it's you know this that he was just like oh well, this is doing today.

Capn Tinsley: 1:05:20

Yeah, I've never sailed out of the Columbia River.

Jerome Rand: 1:05:23

Yeah, I know it's so crazy the first time he goes out of that pass he's going across, so okay.

Capn Tinsley: 1:05:33

So, victoria. Hey, jerome, so glad Ken and I caught the broadcast. Hope you're doing well.

Jerome Rand: 1:05:39

Oh.

Capn Tinsley: 1:05:39

Victoria, hey how we doing I do know her.

Jerome Rand: 1:05:41

Where do you go?

Capn Tinsley: 1:05:42

next Any upcoming we are going to ask that question. Probably saved his life. That's probably true. You saved his life, okay. So which onboard system seems to fail most often under real ocean miles or stress?

Jerome Rand: 1:06:07

to fail most often under real ocean miles, or or stress. Oh, good question. Um, hmm well, I wasn't using any sort of chart plotter so I couldn't really test that. The the garmin inreach that I was using started to malfunction quite really yeah, I think it was just because the salt water.

Jerome Rand: 1:06:21

I I would say honestly, any sort of electronics, anything that's got to use electricity running through a bunch of wires, is going to fail on you at some point on a trip of that that magnitude, which is why, know, shoot by the. By the time I got out of the Southern Ocean, my batteries were completely toast from undercharging for all that time.

Capn Tinsley: 1:06:49

Yeah, lack of sun, yeah.

Jerome Rand: 1:06:51

I could barely keep. The only thing I really kept on all the time was the AIS. You know, you don't even use navigation lights when you're down in the Southern Ocean, because I only saw four boats in four and a half months.

Capn Tinsley: 1:07:04

Did you have a um a wind generator?

Jerome Rand: 1:07:07

Nope, no wind generator. I really wanted to keep the deck and everything as sparse as possible. Um, just cause I figured, you know, there's going to be situations where big breakers were coming and just slamming into the boat over and over again and anything. You know, you see a lot of these, these boats that have solar panels, that are on some pretty fragile mounts and things like that, and even mine, which was on these heavy duty gallows, eventually, years later, got ripped right off the boat. And you know, again, trying to keep the boat as as clean and clear on deck as possible is really, really important for that type of sailing.

Capn Tinsley: 1:07:48

Look at this um, both you as you, Salty and Jerome gave critical advice. Remember I was talking about this. Salty said $500 rig check would be a very well spent.

Jerome Rand: 1:08:00

Well, cause you don't get to inspect. You know half of it, you only see the bottom. And you know I, every once in a while you might climb top of the mass. But in a trade winds route, I mean, you're not, you're, it's always going to be windy out there. You're always going to have those waves, and that's one of the things you know. You can't just climb the mast whenever you want to. Sometimes that thing is swinging around so hard that you it'd be very dangerous to go up. So that was.

Jerome Rand: 1:08:26

That was really really good advice on your part.

Capn Tinsley: 1:08:30

And Barbara says drum said check every day. Yep, we were talking about that too. Yeah, so I don't remember you mentioning that you were clipped in.

Jerome Rand: 1:08:40

Oh, I thought we were going to get through this, that you were clipped in. Oh, I thought we were going to get through this.

Capn Tinsley: 1:08:52

You know, it's one of those things where I would do that too, and I would take a picture of myself on the bow with no, and then people go what are you doing? And it's like oh, I guess they're right. You know cause you?

Jerome Rand: 1:08:59

fall off.

Capn Tinsley: 1:09:00

That's it, that's it.

Jerome Rand: 1:09:01

Yeah, and it's one of those where I always recommend people do what they're most comfortable with, and if you're with other people on a vessel, for sure safety equipment harnesses, life jackets those are going to help to save your life if you end up falling overboard.

Jerome Rand: 1:09:19

For me, I like to move around the deck as freely as quickly as possible I hate it, but in 55 not winds or yeah no, I I've got some clips of me, uh, actually, in the earlier stages of the southern ocean, where I was trying to film some of the swell and the waves from the mast and I almost, almost jibe uncontrollably at one point and that was when I stopped, you know, filming or trying to capture a lot of this sort of stuff, because, yeah, I wasn't clipped in.

Jerome Rand: 1:09:51

Um, I clip in a little bit more these days depending on the weather situation, um, and I think you know there's a little bit of youthful arrogance and ignorance on my part, but I do think that, um, the one thing I always worry about about tethers and things like that, is that that tether is is good but it's not foolproof. And when you have the fear that if you fall overboard you're going to die, um, I think that fear is is probably one of the biggest lifesavers, because it makes you not only hold on tighter, be really aware of what's going on around you, but it also makes you think long and hard before you do anything on the boat and you come up with your plan and you take things slower and more methodically because you know you're going to pay the ultimate consequence.

Capn Tinsley: 1:10:43

and okay, so your daughter is going around the world on a boat. What do you tell her?

Jerome Rand: 1:10:48

well, I don't have a daughter, so I know, okay, your mother, your sister, your grandmother I would, I'd tell them do do exactly what, what you feel most confident and comfortable doing for sure, okay, all right.

Capn Tinsley: 1:11:01

If it was your daughter, you'd probably feel differently.

Jerome Rand: 1:11:05

Probably probably Okay.

Capn Tinsley: 1:11:11

Repair that made you feel an absolute legend afterward. Oh, geez.

Jerome Rand: 1:11:18

Well, there were a lot of those, but I think one of the coolest ones was when my main sheet, where it's on a traveler which has got this big car that moves across this traveler and it's all connected there in the middle of the night and all of a sudden sales going crazy and I'm up there in my pajamas fixing this, just getting totally splashed and took about an hour to get everything sorted out and replaced Cause I had to lash a bunch of stuff.

Capn Tinsley: 1:11:52

But when that was over I was like I think I think I do belong out here and you use some sort of steel wrapping or something and you use some sort of steel wrapping or something.

Jerome Rand: 1:12:05

What did you use on that uh, that one? I just used some uh spectra to to basically winch it back in, and then I had a spare car, but I I knew that I couldn't just let that one go. So after I put the new car on and connected everything back up, I then rebuilt the old, so that became the new spare, because I only had one extra.

Capn Tinsley: 1:12:24

Okay, I feel like I just heard that story. It was on Sunday when. I was listening to your book. Okay, so let's talk about the book. What's the one takeaway from Sailing into Oblivion? From sailing into oblivion, you hope every land lover gets.

Jerome Rand: 1:12:42

I would say, if anything it, I would just hope that it might make you think like, hey, if this guy can do that and he's just a regular guy he didn't have much money and he was able to take this old slow boat all the way around the entire planet Yep.

Jerome Rand: 1:13:02

Then you know that one thing that I want to do, or that I've been dreaming about doing since I was little, or anything like that. I think maybe this is the year to go for it. Not only go after it, but make this the year to go after it.

Capn Tinsley: 1:13:17

And that is sailing with Phoenix's story, right.

Jerome Rand: 1:13:20

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And that's probably why it captivated me so much was that he's going for it. He's not waiting until next year, not waiting until it's a perfect time, because it's never going to be perfect.

Capn Tinsley: 1:13:31

Well, there was a couple of trolls that were trolling my videos. When I interviewed him, saying that you know so what A lot of people have done that, and then all his followers would, I wouldn't have to say anything, his followers would jump on him. It's not the point, it's him, it's. You know it's his whole story. You know that wasn't the point. The troll was missing the point. The troll is just being a troll.

Jerome Rand: 1:14:01

They're always going to be that, and it's just. You know.

Capn Tinsley: 1:14:05

Yeah, it's just yeah, I.

Jerome Rand: 1:14:08

I I that the unfortunate part is that there's those comments and those type of people. Um prevent me from even diving into the comment sections on 99% of any content I put out, cause I'm just like nah, it's just going to leave all that for somebody else to deal with and it's very rare for me with.

Capn Tinsley: 1:14:30

He's got 2 million followers now. So, yeah, it's going to it's going to happen for sure. But he, he seems that he's got a great attitude, cause I haven't even seen that. Everything I've seen has been positive, so he's got the right attitude for it, okay. So, Victoria, here's the question have you already set the next impossible horizon?

Jerome Rand: 1:14:51

I have not. It's always going to be a bit fluid. I do have a new mainsail and a new staysail on Mighty Sparrow, which is really one of the keys.

Capn Tinsley: 1:14:59

I love that name, by the way.

Jerome Rand: 1:15:01

Oh, thank you yeah. I always liked it a lot. It's actually kind of half named after the Calypso singer, mighty Sparrow, and then also the fact that those sparrows they're such small birds but they have that huge migration pattern and you find them all in the edges of the earth.

Capn Tinsley: 1:15:19

Isn't that the bird that people get the tattoo?

Jerome Rand: 1:15:21

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, definitely. I learned about that on the podcast.

Capn Tinsley: 1:15:26

No no, it's a. It's a number of miles or so. I learned about that in my on my podcast interviewing people.

Jerome Rand: 1:15:32

It's amazing Nice. Um, so um time will tell, though I definitely want to do at minimum one more.

Capn Tinsley: 1:15:43

Well, you're going to get the tattoos.

Jerome Rand: 1:15:45

What I want to know. Oh, I am tattoo free still, but I, I, I promised myself I was going to do something after the Appalachian trail, but then I never did and I don't know.

Capn Tinsley: 1:15:56

I'll get something. There's something to be said for being tattoo free. Okay, so you're not sure what the next trip is going to be.

Jerome Rand: 1:16:04

Not yet I do. I do kind of in 2022, I was going to do a figure eight around the North and South Atlantic. That was the trip where I got turned upside down and probably one of the worst storms I had been in and broke everything and then had to limp back. I would really like to do that trip and complete it, but it took me two years to get past what had happened that night and how close I got.

Capn Tinsley: 1:16:30

So I'm back at the point where I'm comfortable We'll have to have another podcast, cause I want to hear about that story. Yeah.

Jerome Rand: 1:16:38

That one's pretty intense, for sure. That was. The only benefit with that that actual trip was that it makes for a really, really good story and a great presentation, not only for like inspiration but also for like a learning experience.

Capn Tinsley: 1:17:15

So I use that in a face of failure, that sort of thing boat and how you dealt with it. Well, why don't you go first?

Jerome Rand: 1:17:22

I don't know. You didn't have to worry about that on the trip did you?

Capn Tinsley: 1:17:24

Yeah, no.

Jerome Rand: 1:17:26

Because I'm a blue water sailor. I've never I don't think Sparrow has ever touched the bottom. From what I understand, it's really. It's just one of those things like if you can wait it out and the tide is going to come in, you just wait to float it off. If you can motor out of it, I guess that's the biggest thing. But it depends on the type of the boat and what you're hitting on the bottom.

Capn Tinsley: 1:17:53

How dangerous it is or what if it's going to mess up your boat.

Jerome Rand: 1:17:56

Yeah, yeah, because anytime you're going to run aground and hit really hard, it almost needs to be hauled out of the water so everything can be fully inspected.

Capn Tinsley: 1:18:08

Yeah, um the the what you said about. Uh, if you wait, you can float off. Or if boats are going by, sometimes a wave will just take you right off of it. And I wait for that first and then the last um in the end. If you can't, then I call CTO. Yeah, and they pull you off and it's only like, uh well, it was $189 a year for unlimited. It's definitely worth it If you're going to be near a coast or in the intercoastal or anything.

Jerome Rand: 1:18:36

Yeah.

Capn Tinsley: 1:18:37

For sure. I think, it might've just gone up um next year. I think it's going up over 200, but still totally worth it. I one time had to have 11 hour tow.

Jerome Rand: 1:18:46

Oh, wow.

Capn Tinsley: 1:18:48

Because of my fuel injectors opened up and fuel went into or I'm not a mechanic, I think the fuel went into the oil or vice versa and 11 hour tow free. That would have been $20, something, oh geez. So tip of the day tip of the day or your towboat us, I have both towboat and sea tow I have.

Jerome Rand: 1:19:17

I, I don't have either. But there have been times where, like, I'm going into an inlet or something like that and I'm thinking to myself, man, if this engine fails right now, how am I going to get out of this? And if you don't want that worry, then something like towboat us or CTO is a good thing to get well worth it.

Capn Tinsley: 1:19:35

Well, I think, when you're, if your engine went out and you're about to hit the rocks or something, you're going to throw out your anchor.

Jerome Rand: 1:19:41

I got the anchor I always got my main halyard, on my main sail ready to raise, and that's one of the things I teach a lot about right? You know, whenever we leave the dock or we're headed in for the day, we never disconnect the halyards and we always are ready to raise those sails just in case.

Capn Tinsley: 1:19:59

Oh yeah, and that's another thing. Another way you can get off um being grounded is you sometimes can sail off of it.

Jerome Rand: 1:20:05

You can just sail up.

Capn Tinsley: 1:20:07

I mean, it all depends on conditions, right? Oh, he said. Thanks for the tip. I'm told there are two types of coast cruisers those who are grounded and those that will exactly I'm sure I will at some point.

Jerome Rand: 1:20:19

I'm headed up to maine later this uh this summer, so hopefully not there it's actually those that are telling the truth and those that are lying. Yeah, yeah, right.

Capn Tinsley: 1:20:29

Because you will do it eventually. Okay, a blank check adventure. Where do you point the bow first? You got a blank check. No money worries, oh, check no money worries.

Jerome Rand: 1:20:44

Oh, no money worries. Geez, I would do. I'd do a. Uh, I'd get a boat on the west coast of the us and I would sail it back to the east coast via the trade winds route, no questions asked. It would be wonderful. That's actually kind of the retirement plan. Take like three years to do it. Oh, that'd be the best.

Capn Tinsley: 1:21:03

Well, if it's a blank check, you could just transport mighty sparrow across and flop.

Jerome Rand: 1:21:09

Oh no, no no, that one, I, I'd want to do it on a larger vessel so that I could bring other people with me for whatever legs.

Capn Tinsley: 1:21:17

Okay, well, you got a blank check, so why not just yeah, yeah right?

Jerome Rand: 1:21:22

Well, honestly, yeah, it'd be something in the 50-foot range so that myself and three to four other people could go and just hit every place you could on the way back to the East Coast.

Capn Tinsley: 1:21:33

Well, I think that you should include. You said you want to go through the Panama Canal and the Sandblast Islands.

Jerome Rand: 1:21:42

You know those yeah, I've heard about, I've never been though I learned about it in a podcast.

Capn Tinsley: 1:21:47

Oh my gosh, that's definitely on the list. Uh, I've got, do you?

Jerome Rand: 1:21:51

um, I don't suppose you would have a favorite anchorage oh yeah, yeah, absolutely north sound virgin gorda, I mean, there's okay on virgin gorda. There are a ton in the bvi of of great anchorages. There's one very special one deep water there well, I mean, that's the thing you go into, north sound and and there's places where it's 10, 15, 20 feet, where it's great holding you're tucked right up in this little spot. Um, there's a couple secret ones that I definitely don't want to divulge.

Capn Tinsley: 1:22:24

Oh, come on.

Jerome Rand: 1:22:25

They're a little dangerous to get into and there are places that are off limits to the charter boats. But you put me in North Sound, on Virgin Gorda, and I'm going to be a happy guy for sure.

Capn Tinsley: 1:22:37

Okay. Well, I always like to ask people what their favorite. I've learned about so many cool anchorages doing that on my podcast. Well, I always like to ask people what their favorite, and I've learned about so many cool anchorages doing that on my podcast. Well, I guess that's it. I mean, we've been on an hour and 23 minutes. Do you guys have any more questions? You got some fans on here, so TikTok 10, 9, 8. So, if you want to ask Jerome any questions, well, I did. I wanted to ask you about your speaking and your and your teaching people how to be offshore.

Jerome Rand: 1:23:10

Oh yeah. Well, it's the speaking stuff I've been doing, you know, since, since I got back, and those are a ton of fun. We speak everywhere, from schools to Were you a speaker before. No, but because I was in the resort industry, I was up in front of big crowds of people doing award shows and presentations, things like that all the time.

Jerome Rand: 1:23:34

So I became pretty comfortable with it. But yeah, it essentially we did the University of Wisconsin. We do a lot of private clubs, venues, yacht clubs but the corporate stuff that came out started doing that last year and those have been pretty fun. Definitely a different sort of challenge. But yeah, obviously there's a lot of relatable things between setting sail and going off into the world of the ocean and equating that to going through challenges in business.

Capn Tinsley: 1:24:06

Yeah, you got to tie it in, don't you?

Jerome Rand: 1:24:08

Yeah, absolutely, but it's always based around a really good story with a lot of good footage, so it's more of an interactive presentation than it is just like me up there with a couple of slides. But yeah, it's been a lot of fun doing that and it's great to meet people and some celebrity podcasts that those corporate gigs are tough crowd. Uh, I don't know. I've never had any issues with that, because I don't know if it's the trips that I've gone on, or if it's the footage, or they're sitting in there.

Capn Tinsley: 1:24:42

I'm in a corporate office. This guy's out sailing around the world. Oh, I hate my life most people.

Jerome Rand: 1:24:49

You know I have to talk them down off the edge of like I'm never going sailing. What is wrong with you and? Let me, let me explain what I get out of this, because well, they don't have to go that far, they can.

Capn Tinsley: 1:25:02

Just they can go to St Martin. Well, the footage.

Jerome Rand: 1:25:06

The footage from the disaster voyage is, uh is pretty intimidating sometimes and it definitely you hear a lot of oohs and ahs and and a lot of questions get asked after that you're crazy boy, yeah, oh yeah, for sure, for sure but it's a lot of fun to share the experience and same with with the coaching and the consulting as, uh, it's been great to sort of, because every adventurer has a day where they have to hang up their adventurer hat and it's nice to know that I can still help, uh, the next generation or, you know, anybody that just has a couple of goals in mind.

Capn Tinsley: 1:25:41

So you are making a living at all this.

Jerome Rand: 1:25:44

Barely, but it's getting better. Well, we're trying to help you here.

Capn Tinsley: 1:25:48

We're trying to sell your book. It's in the comments I mean I mean in the description the link to the book. Please use that. Yeah, and hopefully you're making some money on social media.

Jerome Rand: 1:26:00

Not really. No think I think it helps, uh, get my foot in the door for some of the speaking stuff and, and you know, if anything can help, that that's always a good thing.

Capn Tinsley: 1:26:11

Well, I've heard that speaking is pretty um lucrative, so yeah it can be.

Jerome Rand: 1:26:16

It's just uh, when it's, it's a little few and far between but um sometimes it's kind of like when it rains, it pours. You never know.

Capn Tinsley: 1:26:24

Gotcha, okay. Well, if you guys don't have any more questions for Jerome, somebody is going to have one right when we get, when we sign off. Uh, well, anyway, okay, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you that was absolutely wonderful, okay, thank you so much for coming on.

Jerome Rand: 1:26:43

Thank you, that was absolutely wonderful.

Capn Tinsley: 1:26:44

I really appreciate you having me on the show and taking your time to chat Fascinating and I want to have you back, maybe after the next adventure, or at least maybe come back and talk about that incident that happened in the Atlantic.

Jerome Rand: 1:26:57

Yeah, yeah, I'll be. I I'm kind of all over the place for the summer, but there'll be a few times once I get up to Maine where maybe I'll reach back out and we can talk sea survival.

Capn Tinsley: 1:27:09

Oh, that sounds great. Okay, well, barbara says nice interview. Thank you, barbara. Okay, well, that's it. And the way I always end is to say Salty, ab salty, abandon out.