Salty Podcast #48 | ⛵How to Buy, Finance & Insure a Sailboat Without Sinking the Budget. 💸📝⚓

Dreaming of owning a sailboat & sailing to the Caribbean? ⛵ Tune in to Salty Podcast #48: I chat with a boat broker about buying, financing 💳, & insuring🛡️ sailboats! 🎧

Video Podlink:  https://tinyurl.com/SaltyPodcast48
SaltyAbandon #SaltyPodcast #SailingTips #SailboatBuying #Sailing ⛵

Chapters

• 0:00 Buying, Financing, and Insuring a Sailboat
• 11:03 Boat Financing and Valuation Insights
• 20:35 Importance of Boat Pre-Purchase Survey
• 26:29 Selecting a Trustworthy Surveyor
• 32:28 Boat Storage During Hurricane Season
• 37:51 Boating Industry Financing and Insurance
• 52:13 Navigating Boat Surveyors and Insurance
• 1:05:18 Living Aboard Sailboat Insurance and Education
• 1:10:13 Sailing Course Options and Learning
• 1:21:31 First Sailboat Adventure Plans

Transcript

Capn Tinsley: 0:00

Good evening. Do you dream of owning a sailboat and sailing off to the Caribbean, but not sure where to start? Choosing the right boat, figuring out how to finance it and ensuring the best possible coverage can make buying a sailboat an exciting, yet overwhelming adventure. Today, I'm joined by Vanessa Linsley, an experienced boat broker and sailor, who will share insider tips and expert advice to help you navigate the process with confidence, whether you're a first-time buyer or upgrading to your next dream boat, this episode has something for everyone, so stick around. Please help the channel and engage by liking this video, subscribing to the channel and dropping your questions in the chat so they can be answered live. I'm Captain Tinsley and this is Salty Podcast, episode 48, and here is my guest, vanessa Linsley. Hey, hey, vanessa, hello, hello, hey. Well, you came in slinging gravel into your parking lot to get on here, didn't you? I?

Vanessa Linsley: 1:04

did I think we made it. I did, we made it. We made it. I'm still settling. Sorry about that.

Capn Tinsley: 1:10

No, that's okay, we just on the Salty Podcast. We just keep on going. We're probably going to have one of your clients to come on. She just texted me and she was getting off work and wants to log on, and this is a person that you sold a boat to recently. So we'll get into that and bring her on when she comes on.

Capn Tinsley: 1:31

So tonight I've got five questions on buying a sailboat, five questions on financing and five questions on insurance. So we don't have to stick to that that's. If you feel like something's more helpful or more interesting, we can go off that script. But I think they're pretty good questions. So why don't we just jump right in and start with buying a sailboat? Well, first of all, tell us your experience as far as how many years you've been selling boats and sailing and teaching, and there's a lot. I mean you can't tell all your experience as far as how many years you've been selling boats and sailing and teaching, and there's a lot. I mean you can't tell all your experience of everything like how you can take a boat apart and put it back together. But you know, we'll save that for another video I just have to remember how old I am you're my age.

Capn Tinsley: 2:20

so if you tell your age, you're going to tell my age, which is fine.

Vanessa Linsley: 2:26

I've been sailing for 53 years, wow. And I have owned a boat for 48 years Wow. And so I am a class racer. I'm an ocean racer retired, my body's trying to keep up. Um, I've owned and lived on my cruising sailboat, sailed it halfway around the world on my own for 37 years and have done two other circumnavigations One was professionally as crew and the other one was racing so and I've been a boat broker now for 32 years.

Capn Tinsley: 3:12

Okay.

Vanessa Linsley: 3:13

And I've built a handful of boats from class designs up and spent 25 years managing and maintaining a full fleet of bare boat, charter boats and doing warranty work, a number of um, a number of brands, but not just isolated to sale, sale and power, both as well as multi-halls.

Capn Tinsley: 3:37

So and I've been, I'm gonna, I'm gonna go ahead and bring out your client, okay? Uh, kelly, and I've met kelly. Here we go, kelly, get ready. All right, there she is. Hi, so you're. Thank you for coming on. We brought you on to give the context of being on the other side of buying, and I have, I have that experience too. Uh and um, vanessa is the expert on so many things, but, um, tonight she's the boat broker and sailor, so you missed it, kelly. But thank you for coming on.

Capn Tinsley: 4:12

By the way, no problem, I would like to say how I met you. So I was down in Key West about a month ago and Key West, john and I were just. I said, hey, let's go look at Vanessa's boat. And your husband, mike, was standing there and I honestly thought that he was going to say hey, who are you sniffing around these boats, you know? So I was like, hey, we're just looking for Vanessa's boat. And he goes hey, I thought that was you and he recognized me and he actually you guys were actually watching the podcast and you saw Vanessa and decided I'm going to contact her because there was a boat you were looking at online that you ended up buying and we're going to get into all that. So I think that's really cool and you just jump in. I'm going to ask some questions. You just jump in where you think it pertains. You know where you can offer something. Just go ahead and tell us your name. I haven't let you talk yet.

Kelly Coonce: 5:04

My name's Kelly.

Capn Tinsley: 5:06

Okay, and your husband's, mike, and you're on a boat right now. Both of you are.

Kelly Coonce: 5:10

Yeah, Yep Sold. Our house bought a boat.

Capn Tinsley: 5:14

Okay, what kind of boat is it?

Kelly Coonce: 5:17

It's an Island Packet 349, a 2021.

Capn Tinsley: 5:20

2021. That is a sweet boat. Okay, all right, let's start with uh. The first question is for vanessa, um and and possibly kelly what's the biggest mistake first-time buyers make when purchasing a sailboat?

Vanessa Linsley: 5:36

there's multiple things that's hard to say for one specific thing. One they do get buyers sometimes if it really wasn't meant to be. The other thing is is I think they bite off more than they can chew. They either get too small of a boat for what they want to do or too large of a boat for what they want to do. They really haven't thought about and had anybody with a fair amount of experience really spend time talking to them about what it is they're looking at doing. Are you talking about living aboard and cruising the bahamas and cruising coastwise? Are you talking about going ocean sailing? What are you talking about doing? You know so. The one thing you never want to do when you buy a boat is spend so much money on it that you can't go sailing. And there's a lot of people during COVID and that's what they did.

Capn Tinsley: 6:28

Yeah, yeah, there was a lot of boat sales during that time, wasn't there?

Vanessa Linsley: 6:32

Yeah, there was, and my goal as a broker is not ever to sell you a boat that you're not really wanting and that you don't aren't really looking for. So I'm never going to be wealthy as a boat broker, okay. Okay, that you up with a boat that suits your needs and it's what you really want and you're in love with relative to what you want to do and what you want to accomplish with it.

Capn Tinsley: 6:54

Okay. So if somebody wants to live aboard, if they want to sail around Florida, if they want to sail to the Caribbean, those are the criteria. That were very different criteria.

Vanessa Linsley: 7:04

Yeah, okay, and what did Kelly tell you? They wanted Kelly. Actually, they were interesting and I did question them on multiple occasions, over and over again, did I not? I said are you sure this is going to be big enough? After I found out what they wanted to do. And then I said well, you know, that's a boat that's kind of in a unique situation because that boat has the capability of going around the world. It's one of the smaller boats that has the capability of going out around the world comfortably. It's built well enough to be able to do that, and people know that. So you know I. I asked them, I think, what every time I talked to you for at least the first half a dozen times are you sure about this, didn't I?

Kelly Coonce: 7:48

I think, so.

Kelly Coonce: 7:49

And I mean just I guess backstory. Like my husband and I have zippy sailing experience, so for us to literally sell our like 1,700 square foot house and buy a sailboat, this, this was a leap um, but we had done some research. So I think that's important, um, especially for first-time buyers, but for anybody really. Just like vanessa said, you have to know what you're looking for, what you want to do, and um, even though we don't, we didn't know anything, we did a lot of research about how we might do what we want to do, which was ultimately a. We knew we wanted to learn how to sail. We wanted a boat that was small enough that we could handle the two people, big enough that it's comfortable to live aboard, and we had done a lot of research on island packets.

Kelly Coonce: 8:48

And we had done a lot of research on island packets and um, just the. It's so funny because mike's number one rule was don't fall in love with an island packet. And then what did we do? That that immediately fell in love with an island packet. It's hard not to. So the the uh here's.

Capn Tinsley: 8:59

Here's the uh, the folks that run the island packet uh facebook group. Um, this is the folks that run the Island Packet Facebook group. This is the person that probably approved when you tried to join. When you did join the Facebook group. This is them right here.

Capn Tinsley: 9:12

This is Hayden and Radine of SB Island Spirit, who are also boat brokers. I'd ask them to come in here and chime in too. Yeah, that is a beautiful boat.

Capn Tinsley: 9:22

I think, in my opinion, that boat is perfect for a forever boat, and Hayden and Radine are on an Island Packet 35, so they're on a similar size, and they've had that boat for 15 years or something like that. Hayden can chime in, but I think it's perfect for everything you want to do, and I have a 320, and I think mine's okay too. It's perfect for everything you want to do, and I have a 320, and I think mine's okay too. So, anyway, I think you've got just so many things that are open to you in that boat and it's such a well-made boat Like it will take care of you. That boat will take care of you, Isn't that right, hayden, he's a big fan of Island Packet. Okay, so let's just go to the next question. How do you determine if a sailboat is priced fairly? So you're a broker and you're looking at a boat and it's way overpriced or way underpriced. How do you handle that?

Vanessa Linsley: 10:15

So there's multiple things right now that are actually going on Because, once again, when COVID hit, we had a limited inventory and a lot of people ended up being in a situation where they were able to take advantage of it. I mean a long and short of it and the reality is is there are very few boats in this world that are going to appreciate as an asset. This is not a house, this is a boat. Boats, no matter what, are depreciating assets, whether it's minimally or maximally. It depends on the boat, depends on the boat, depends on the manufacturer.

Vanessa Linsley: 10:46

One of the really good things about island packets is that they don't depreciate the same as other boats do. They have the capability of holding their value and actually some of them, appreciating, depending on what you do to them. So I've got one of those right now and you know it. It that's Listing. You have a listing like that.

Vanessa Linsley: 11:08

I have a for 85 that you guys have heard from before from bill kenny that he they're having some health issues and they have to move the boat and unfortunately they're not going to get to complete their goals and their aspirations what they wanted to do. But that boat is close to perfect, but it's one of the very few boats that it is totally capable of sailing around the world. You could step on it right now. Grab your clothes, grab your food and you're ready to go.

Capn Tinsley: 11:33

It's in Jacksonville, if anybody's interested.

Vanessa Linsley: 11:39

Thank you. So what I always do, I do something a little bit different from a lot of people. There is a book that's out there that the banks like to use still, and especially here in the South, and they're called the Buck Book, kind of like the Kelly Blue Book yeah, kind of, but it's worse. It's about 20% off. You have to remember that boats are actually in different territories and when you're in the south and you're in areas where we have the tropics, you have a lot of weather damage that's done to boats and it's not damage, it's simple wear and tear. That's part of the depreciation. So the buck book does not take into account the territorial area of where those boats are, account, the territorial area of where those boats are. So you may have times you go to a bank to actually get a loan on a boat and they're going to tell you well, it's not worth that or it's worth something more than that.

Vanessa Linsley: 12:32

And I have always, for a number of years now. What I do is I go in and I look at what other boats sold at. In addition, I look to what the equipment that is on those boats that is comparable to those boats, and then I look at those exact same boats that have sold. When have they sold, where did they sell and what was the situation. And you've got to pick up the phone and you've got to call all those brokers and all those people and say, hey, can you tell me something about your boat, otherwise you're not going to get an accurate answer because you can't when you're when you're dealing with a lender, you might have to call and well, if you haven't surveyed, they're going to do.

Capn Tinsley: 13:13

They're going to do what you call an appraisal on the survey they do.

Vanessa Linsley: 13:16

And what's the money that? Surveyor is going to take all that into consideration and hopefully and most of the time surveyors love working with me because I do a lot of that homework for them ahead of time. Nice because when I deal with people who are looking at buying boats, I want them to get a fair market value I don't want to overpay for a boat.

Vanessa Linsley: 13:36

I don't want the the seller, on the other hand, to get taken for a ride. So one of the things I do when I very first list a boat or I'm actually have a client that's looking for a boat is I go in and I do that homework. So, and and to me, and what I found is that is a very important thing because you're going to find out if a boat's had hurricane damage. You're going to find out if a boat is sunk. You're going to find out if a boat has had anything major that's happened to it when you do a title and lean search on it, and also if it hasn't been uncovered when you go to the survey and the time of the survey, the surveyor is going to uncover the rest. So I don't always do it in defense of the boat, I do it in defense of the price. So the covid pricing took things up to places that they never should have been.

Capn Tinsley: 14:23

It's like real estate yeah.

Vanessa Linsley: 14:25

And the hard part is just coming back down from that now and getting sellers to understand that you know this was different three years ago than it is now. Right, inventory is much less, but that doesn't mean it's going to cost more and be more. We're past that now, and so the lenders are not going to give you the same amount on the dollar as they were at that time. If they were and that was very limited at that time there were a lot of cash buyers and that was part of the problem.

Capn Tinsley: 14:53

Right.

Vanessa Linsley: 14:54

It's not really a problem. People got to take advantage both sides of it. People who wanted to escape from COVID were able to do that, but they paid a pretty penny for it. So there's a number of those boats on the market now and the whole trick is finding out what that value should be at. You know, if you have an original bill of sale and you have all of the add-ons that were added to it, which is kind of the situation that kelly and mike were in, that's a new enough boat. There were very few of them that were out there, that were actually on the market, that have sold. You had brand new ones. You have to figure out a depreciation number off of those brand new ones. In this particular boat had a couple of different situations. What's the situation that the seller was in? You know. So you throw your offer out there and then you come to meet in the middle and that's where you go.

Capn Tinsley: 15:44

Sounds very similar to real estate it is very similar to real estate. Yeah, and that's where it's different when you come to the what. The finance and the closing time, and the financing time in real estate is very different from both. Well, okay, so I can speak to that.

Vanessa Linsley: 16:04

Okay, I bought a house and I bought a boat. Okay, yeah.

Kelly Coonce: 16:07

I don't, I mean just I don't even, I don't even know what to say Like it was difficult. A, we're first time boat owners, so I and we have no experience, so everyone was like we're not giving you money because we're such a liability. So thank god vanessa had some connections in order to help financing happen, because we did go through a couple of places that, just frankly, were like and that, and the reason was the credit score or the experience no, we're gonna.

Kelly Coonce: 16:40

We're gonna talk about financing. Next it was experience and just they were all like you have no experience. What are you doing? Basically, because my credit score is great, I mean, we had sold our house, so we had equity that we were transferring and then we had some savings as well, like we had planned ahead.

Vanessa Linsley: 17:01

But it was just basically like it's just a lot different than a house and if you're, if you're thinking of buying a boat, let me throw something in there real quick Don't sell your house.

Kelly Coonce: 17:12

Yeah, well, and it was, but it was hard because we needed to sell our house in order to have some of the funding Right, and then we were also moving. You know, obviously, like we came from Northwest Ohio and there you can't really have a boat there. You know not, there's. The closest lake is a few hours away. Lake Michigan is somewhat close, but we knew that wasn't what we wanted to do, so we just we were in a unique situation which made it even more challenging. But I don't really take no for an answer, so I was like, okay, plan B, plan C, we'll figure this out, we'll do it. Yeah, I mean, it was just perseverance.

Vanessa Linsley: 17:52

So why did?

Capn Tinsley: 17:52

you say don't sell your house.

Vanessa Linsley: 17:54

Well, because when you're getting financing as well and this is a big thing in boats, that's different from houses Okay, it helps to have that dirt property. I don't have any other way to say it other than dirt property. Dirt property is an equity, it's an asset that can't move. Yeah, you use it as collateral. You can have crypto, you can have funding, you can have currency that can all move right, a dirt house can't move long and short of of it. So finance companies a lot of times will look at that. They'll have that as a consideration. Okay, well, they got property, they go off somewhere with a boat, they renege on things. Well, I can turn around and I can take their house. There's your collateral, you use it as collateral.

Capn Tinsley: 18:38

But you can still sell it after you get the loan right. Exactly.

Vanessa Linsley: 18:42

And sometimes it does make it a little bit easier. But the other thing is is that, for insurance purposes, if you have a physical address and you have proof of a length of time in that physical address, depending on where that territorial address is, you'll find out that your insurance rates are different. They vary and the insurance companies don't like to talk about that. But you know, here I am, I'm on a boat, I'm in key west florida and, uh, my insurance rate's going to be a heck of a lot different than if I was in annapolis, maryland, or even if I was, uh, actually just in north georgia, yeah, even though there's still hurricane belt areas, as we've seen more this year than we have. So the tip of the day.

Capn Tinsley: 19:31

A tip of the day would be if you're buying a boat and you're planning on selling your house, just go ahead and wait until all that's over.

Vanessa Linsley: 19:38

Get the insurance, get the financing close on it, you can have the boat ready to sell, have your house ready to go and have things going, be looking for the boat at the same time. I know that's easier said than done, but you, you, you find the boat, you get your finance and put together on the boat and then you sell the house after your closing date. On the boat it's good too. That's a good tip. It makes things completely different, and Kelly can attest to that. They ran into that portion of that situation.

Kelly Coonce: 20:12

And our house sold in 24 hours. That's amazing. It was like, oh okay, this is what we're doing. It sold so fast.

Capn Tinsley: 20:27

I guess we're going south, we're going to get on the side, now all the all the um so we are? We got the importance of a pre-purchase survey. What should buyers focus on?

Vanessa Linsley: 20:42

buyers should focus on. What are the problems with the boat that the surveyor has found Two? Are they capable of dealing with those problems or do they seem overwhelming, not necessarily financially, but as far as mentally as well? You know you find a great boat, you love that boat and it had a grounding at some point in time and it loosened the keel bolts and it drove you crazy. And even if you had it professionally repaired, are you gonna have stuck in your head for the rest of your life that something happened to your keel bolts and and every time you're out sailing you're opening up the bilge and staring at it for 10 minutes going. I got water, I know there's water, I know there's some people.

Capn Tinsley: 21:34

That's for me, who cannot, who who doesn't fix things, and I pay for people to fix things. Maybe that'll change someday. But if a survey, if it's there's things that like, if mike and kelly know how to fix, like, okay, there's this problem, this problem, but we can handle that, that's different than if it's someone like me. It's like no, I don't want that. I want it to be all done, absolutely so those, those on your capabilities of maintenance or your or your willingness to go pull that credit card out and get someone else to fix it.

Vanessa Linsley: 22:04

What they're going to cost, but one are they something that is detrimental to the depreciation of the boat? Right, and that's huge. That statement alone, right, there is big, because a surveyor can look at that boat and say, oh, this is great, no problem, surveyors are human, they make errors, they might not have dug all the way into something. And then, all of a sudden, you get ready to sell that boat in a short period of time, or just a couple years later, and you've actually used the boat and another surveyor comes up and they say, oh my God, this boat was in a hurricane, this boat went aground. And oh, look at this, look at this, and it's a wear and tear item that wasn't caught in a survey.

Capn Tinsley: 22:43

Yeah, items that cause a problem with resale always have to be considered. Are you planning on keeping this boat or are you going to flip it just like in real estate? This right here is going to affect the resale. It may not bother you, but a whole bunch of buyers it will. That comes from experience of selling. That's where a good broker comes in. Hayden says do you find some surveyors or deal killers? I'm sure they are.

Vanessa Linsley: 23:15

There are some surveyors who may be deal killers, but you know what, if I'm using a really good surveyor, that I trust their judgment and I absolutely love working with them as a surveyor because, one, I know they're thorough and two, I know they're fair and three, I know they're honest about it. Maybe that boat wasn't the right boat for my client in the first place and it's not. Once again, I'm going to say it again I'm never going to be wealthy from selling boats, never going to be wealthy from selling boats, because I'm always going to come up and I'm going to represent that boat for what it actually is. So do I have a surveyor that's a deal killer? I won't consider the surveyor the deal killer. I'll consider the boat to be the deal killer and the honesty behind what actually happened with the boat.

Vanessa Linsley: 24:02

Well, sometimes I know, like with home inspectors, they can over report something to say, make it sound real scary when, when you know you have to be able to talk about that as a as a broker, to say, no, this is not as serious as what you say, and part of your job as that broker and especially if your clients love this boat and it seems like the right boat for them is to do the homework on that and figure out where it came from and what the problem actually is and how can it be repaired and what is actually the problem, what is the actual cost of it. That's where the surveyor could be a deal killer. When the surveyor wants to start quoting prices on repairs, no, no, no, no. The surveyor's job is to find something wrong with the boat. They're not the ones doing the repairs right, they're the ones that are doing the survey, letting you know that something's wrong. It leave that up to the people in the industry that are the reasonable, ethical, professional people.

Vanessa Linsley: 24:58

I remember a professional built the titanic. It was an amateur who built Noah's Ark. I can't help it. I got to always say that there's a lot of merit to that statement.

Capn Tinsley: 25:07

That's a good point yeah.

Vanessa Linsley: 25:09

But do remember, that is where you're actually going to come in and you're going to say, okay, hey, this is reasonable, I can deal with this, because they're the ones who are going to be doing the repair, they're the ones that are going to tell you what it's going to cost to fix it.

Capn Tinsley: 25:23

Yeah, it may be worth it, it could be worth it. So, kelly, what did you think about that whole experience?

Kelly Coonce: 25:29

I thought the survey experience was amazing. I mean also like we went into this. That's part of the reason why we chose a newer boat, because we knew like we didn't want to have to do a refit. We knew that just was not, that was not going to happen, considering our knowledge and skill level. But yeah, there was a few things uncovered nothing major, nothing that we felt like was going to stop us from buying the boat, and we still felt like it was a good price, a fair price. And I mean we looked at those things and thought, yes, like these are all things that we can get fixed, some stuff we could be willing to learn how to do ourselves. Other things maybe learn from other people, but you know the survey process. I think that is important, like again thankful that we had a surveyor that seemed trustworthy and very thorough, very thorough. So that was, that was a good experience and we learned through that experience.

Capn Tinsley: 26:29

Takes some mystery out of it. And, like you said, vanessa, I mean they do miss things, but but you, since you probably chose the, you know you chose a trustworthy surveyor. Then you could feel good about Vanessa's choice, kelly.

Kelly Coonce: 26:47

Yes.

Vanessa Linsley: 26:48

Yeah.

Capn Tinsley: 26:49

Yeah.

Vanessa Linsley: 26:50

The island packet surveyor.

Capn Tinsley: 26:52

Yeah, oh, so you choose your surveyor, depending on the boat, a lot of times.

Vanessa Linsley: 26:58

Yes, I will choose the surveyor, I will.

Capn Tinsley: 27:03

It was Cecilia, wasn't it?

Vanessa Linsley: 27:04

Yes, it was, and I will not choose a surveyor for them, but I will give them the experience level and I believe I gave you guys three different people and I told you their experience, but I did, I can't even remember.

Kelly Coonce: 27:21

But I just like I think my kid kind of like books Cecilia up. Cecilia is the best. She's the one that did both of mine.

Capn Tinsley: 27:27

Yeah, she's, and you know there's. I found out when I bought this last boat that some surveyors don't even climb the mast anymore, that a lot of them are aging. She does.

Kelly Coonce: 27:39

And that. So that was one of the issues that we found was at the top of the mast. So I think that it's a good thing that she climbed up there.

Capn Tinsley: 27:47

That is awesome. And you know the way. The way I met Cecilia was through through Hayden of SV Island Spirit, the one who's commenting here, and then I didn't I introduce you to her, didn't you meet her through me, vanessa.

Vanessa Linsley: 28:03

I actually had heard from her and then you kept telling me you got to meet Cecilia and I kept telling you I've heard of her and then okay, all right, you broke your ankle.

Capn Tinsley: 28:12

She was running through the parking lot, and that's when I actually met her yeah, yeah, she came to pop in on me and I'm in the ambulance and she goes, hey, and I said I've messed up my ankle, she goes. I see she was looking at it. Yeah, she was coming by and that's really cool. That's a great relationship now and I can thank Hayden for introducing me to her and I wouldn't want anybody else now.

Vanessa Linsley: 28:38

Well, electrical systems are another thing you know, and one of the things that you get with Celia as a surveyor is that you get the full package deal. You don't have to worry about setting schedules for having an electrician come look at the boat, having a rigger come look at the boat, having a diesel mechanic come look at the boat and then having the surveyor looking at the structure.

Capn Tinsley: 28:58

Celia's a one-shot deal well, she did recommend that I get an independent diesel survey, so I did.

Vanessa Linsley: 29:05

And that is a cursory thing, you know, because what happens is that she's not going to pressure test, but she's going to look and she's. There's a lot of things you're going to learn from the very beginning. When you turn an engine on and you actually run it, you go out on that sea trial for the survey. If you have a weird kind of smoke blue smoke, gray smoke, white smoke, black smoke coming out, those all mean something different. Yes, they do. So the whole key is what is that about? Is that because of the temperature today, or do we actually have maybe a little crack in a head gasket or something that's working on? Well, a crack in a head gasket could be a big deal. It might not be a big deal. What is it? Do you really like this boat? Well, let's figure it out, and you don't have to break the bank finding that out.

Capn Tinsley: 29:48

Yeah, which is the point of this video you don't have to stink the budget Now if you want to. There's plenty of opportunity to break the budget.

Vanessa Linsley: 29:57

Well, it's better to remember that on larger boats, things that are, over.

Capn Tinsley: 30:02

You hold that camera still now. Can you get it still?

Vanessa Linsley: 30:07

That's perfect Things that are over about 60 feet. You know, when you start looking at boats that are over 60 feet, you go into many mega yachts and mega yachts. You know you may have a survey that may take three days and it may be four different people.

Capn Tinsley: 30:22

Okay.

Vanessa Linsley: 30:23

It's important to take oil samples, yes, of your engine and your generator, any running mechanical systems, and have those analyzed. What is the actual wear and tear going on in that engine? Is that wear and tear shown in the hour meter? Well, probably not. If it's an older boat and it's a used boat, it's not going to be. So you spend two and a half days and time and you send those oil samples out, and Assyria always pulls oil samples.

Capn Tinsley: 30:48

Yeah, that's what I do.

Capn Tinsley: 30:50

And she's also Kelly. She's also good for coming back and doing addendum if you add a bunch of things, like I've done twice. I had her come back because I wanted to make sure my insurance was updated because I added a whole bunch of stuff. Yeah, I wanted to up the insurance. So she'll come and not have to do the full survey. She'll just kind of do an addendum to the survey. Okay, so you kind of touched on this. How has the market changed? You've been in this a long time. How has the market changed for sailboats in recent years years, but just kind of overall, um, how how has it changed since you first started?

Vanessa Linsley: 31:28

oh my gosh, it's changed huge. Um, you know, when I first started, it was not uncommon to buy a boat that was 30 or 40 years old as a used boat. You could do that. Nowadays that's not so easy to do because it's more difficult to insure boats that are over 20 years old, which is ridiculous, because a lot of the older boats are much better built than the newer boats and far between. But it's a matter of knowing who they are and being able to get a hold of them and then approaching them with what you have, with a full survey, and saying this is what I have and showing that that vessel is in good repair and in good condition for them so back in the old days, if there was no issue, people could get insurance, and there was you could get insurance pretty easily.

Vanessa Linsley: 32:20

I mean, I grew up on the texas and you know Hurricane Alley is right up our way as well. Hurricanes are a fact of life. Now, if you want to leave a boat all year long, beyond six months, and in through hurricane season in certain areas, they either want you to haul the boat out and put it in a boatyard, which to me is an unsafe thing to do. There's more boats that have been damaged in boatyards. When the water rises and the water comes back down, what do you do? You fall on the stands and you hold the boat. Well, if you have that boat floating, the water goes up, water comes down. The boat goes up, boat goes down. It doesn't land on anything. Hopefully. During a hurricane Sometimes you have debris that does things, but it's not nearly as common and cause nearly as much damage as what the boat yards actually do. So to me, the idea of hauling a boat out in a boat yard during a hurricane, unless you have an unsuitable place to secure that boat a dock, pilings, mangroves, whatever is a ridiculous thing to do. You know, I live on an island here. The water goes up, the water comes down.

Vanessa Linsley: 33:29

I had one boat one time. That actually was a beautiful old west sail 32 gentleman had passed away. He was leaving the remnants of the boat and what was made off of it to his two young children. That's all he had. Water goes up, water goes down. Everybody in that boat yard it was loaded up 127 boats. I don't know why, but this was the last one in the row. I was closest out to the water and I felt the need to put strops on the boat and bang them into the ground, into the hard ground, to make sure that if the boat lifted up it wasn't going to come back down on the stands, it was going to stay right where it was. And I closed the through holes. We had a water line on the side of the boat that, sure enough, it went up about 14 feet. The name of that hurricane was Wilma Destroyed half of this island. Every boat in that yard was knocked down, but that one boat.

Capn Tinsley: 34:21

Yeah, they can get knocked off their stands.

Vanessa Linsley: 34:24

Easily that one boat.

Capn Tinsley: 34:25

They can get knocked off their stands easily. That's what happened with Island Spirit. It was in Puerto Rico and it was fine because it was tied down in a yard, but something else hit it and broke the mast, something outside of their control, but still.

Vanessa Linsley: 34:45

It's why the insurance company, though, is going to require you to put that boat in the boatyard now is beyond me.

Capn Tinsley: 34:52

Well, the, the last, uh, this boat I bought. They made me fill out this big form because it was right after hurricane sally what is your plan? You know, and I had to and I was trying to get to closing, so I was just like typing in stuff. I got to remember what I typed because they're going to probably hold me to it, you know, and it it wanted me. It wanted me to tell what I was going to do.

Vanessa Linsley: 35:13

Yeah, and where your lines are led and what size lines that you're using, and it's their form of being able to protect themselves for what they're ensuring and understand that you have the capability or have the possibility of having someone help you. Who has the capability, who has the experience with that? Because the other thing I got to add to that is that these storms have gotten much stronger and they've gotten much larger and they're lasting a much longer time in duration than they did 30 and 40 years ago.

Capn Tinsley: 35:44

And would you say there's more boats out there now that are? There's just so many more boats in Florida, would you say that, than there were then? Yeah Well, there's a lot more people there now.

Vanessa Linsley: 35:55

No, there's a lot more people here, but they're you know, a lot of those older boats are gone. They've been gone and you know, every time we have a hurricane more of them go and part of that's because they can't get insured and where they're having to tie up how they're tying up, and you know so, some of the older boats are going by the wayside because they're being destroyed so easily and it's not because of how they're built, it's because of how they can't get into a place that helps them. You know, it's what keeps the market. But having brand new boats being built, one is a product of the market, it's a product of new advancements, coming out with new products and new materials and keeping those businesses going, those boat building businesses.

Vanessa Linsley: 36:41

Now, those boat building businesses have fallen off big time. Here in the United States we have very few boats. Island packets are, but we have very few boats that the market, and they in numbers, were much larger in numbers of the boats that existed out there than what we have now. And then the products that they use to build those boats and the knowledge that they have to build those boats is where they become vastly different from country to country. So saying you know, here in Florida we have a lot of import boats, we have a lot of boats that have come in. Are there more boats out there now than there were then? No, I don't think so.

Vanessa Linsley: 37:33

We had a lot more boats around then. We had a much larger variety, but we had things that shouldn't have been insured that were insured, and then we had ones that should have been insured that couldn't get insurance, simply because they were 30 years old, right.

Capn Tinsley: 37:50

Okay, so here's. Hayden says my Caribbean insurance requires a holdout July 1st through December 1st. Caribbean insurance is expensive, so they their sale year is like December to May and they started leaving their boat in the Caribbean and then going home and then coming back.

Vanessa Linsley: 38:11

So Caribbean insurance. Not all Caribbean insurance requires that.

Vanessa Linsley: 38:17

I do have people that I work with that are sailing around the world, that are circumnavigating. I have some Americans that are doing that and there are some other companies. They're not inexpensive but they're also not breaking the bank. There's a couple of new insurance companies that are going to be popping up soon here that you'll see as well. I'm not at such liberty to talk about, but there are a couple of companies that are considering, that are going to be going into the business and it's about the need in the market.

Capn Tinsley: 38:47

Well, it's just like insurance on our condos there's. A lot of providers have left the market, so these people like you're talking about probably see an opportunity. They see a hole in the market and they let's take advantage of it.

Vanessa Linsley: 39:02

Exactly, and the interesting thing about these funders for these insurance companies that want to start things is that one they're all foreign financers, but they also have a big, huge interest in marinas. Now you've got to remember if you're going to keep….

Capn Tinsley: 39:22

Yeah, you've got to have insurance to be in these nice marinas. Yeah, sure, okay, that makes sense.

Vanessa Linsley: 39:29

Here in South Florida and in the Gulf Coast in places is that they want you to go north in the summer months during the hurricane season. Well, you've got to look at where the hurricanes have been hitting. The hurricanes haven't been hitting in Key West and over here on the lower eastern seaboard as they did before. They're cyclic.

Kelly Coonce: 39:46

Mm-hmm.

Vanessa Linsley: 39:47

And they were hitting farther up the east coast, like where I am. You're on the west coast.

Capn Tinsley: 39:54

No, I'm on the northern Gulf Coast, right, they come here. I'm in a bullseye.

Vanessa Linsley: 40:03

Exactly, they immediately. South Florida is where everything's going to roll into.

Capn Tinsley: 40:09

Well, no, it comes over us. It's not built up yet.

Vanessa Linsley: 40:11

Yeah or goes around, yeah, but meanwhile we're the ones down here that can't get insurance, because oh no, you're gonna hurricane. So the the eastern seaboard in the last couple of years has taken the brunt of more heavier hurricanes and weather than what South Florida has, and yet they're still easy to insure there compared to here. Okay, I see what you're saying.

Capn Tinsley: 40:34

These couple of different factors have wrecked it, Because statistics will show that I get more hurricanes where I am than you do where you are. I get more hurricanes where I am than you do where you are. I mean we get because it builds all into the Gulf and gets all mad and angry and bam, it has the whole Gulf to massively, you know, intensify. So I think the statistics would show that I am in a worse spot than you are.

Vanessa Linsley: 41:07

First, statistically Well as far as being a stronger hurricane. Statistically, interestingly enough, as far as the insurance companies go, they think we get hit more.

Capn Tinsley: 41:17

I know that's what I'm saying. That doesn't make sense.

Vanessa Linsley: 41:21

Well, they're not sailors and they're not meteorologists and they're not into seeing what they're looking at, simply. Oh well, you had a hurricane that came up over there, so what? It was a one, and it hit you with a five.

Capn Tinsley: 41:33

Yeah, we'll run a little chat GPT spreadsheet for them and we'll send it to them.

Vanessa Linsley: 41:38

But that becomes part of the problem. Just like Kelly can attest to where your permanent address is and this is where that comes in when your permanent address is that you're going to fill out when you're filing for your insurance is not necessarily where the boat's located. Right, the insurance companies look at that and they may go ahead and agree to insure you because your address is in Ohio and not in Florida at the time. Right.

Vanessa Linsley: 42:13

And then you decide you're going to leave the boat in Florida and you're going to stay here, and they still are okay with it. But yet you turn around and you tell them well, I'm going to be on the boat and I'm going to be there for this amount of time. And they turn around and they say, oh no, well, you're not in Ohio. Well, no, the boat's here.

Capn Tinsley: 42:31

That doesn't make any sense, Especially knowing like you are on your boat. You're there with it, so when something happens, you're there where you can take action. If she's in Ohio and her boat's in Key West, you may not be able to even go down there.

Vanessa Linsley: 42:47

Most of the insurers are not knowledgeable boaters. You've got to remember that they're bankers All right.

Capn Tinsley: 42:56

Well, that's ridiculous.

Vanessa Linsley: 43:01

They need to talk to us you know National insurance companies are easier to insure your boats here in the stateside in certain areas than local insurers. Are you?

Capn Tinsley: 43:12

ever able to reason with them, or they just have to go by these rules that they have in their computer. This is it. You have a knowledge Good question.

Kelly Coonce: 43:21

Right, kelly, I wasn't able to reason with them. I think they just um, they use this the same underwriters that the bank use, and I don't think underwriters are real people, I think they're just robots well, you know our lenders here because not not every lender can do gulf front condos, which is what I sell.

Capn Tinsley: 43:41

So our lenders that are here in this area that specialize in condos they actually work at getting their own underwriters or choosing people that know the condo market, because somebody you know in in Nashville is not going to understand Gulf front condos.

Vanessa Linsley: 43:59

So they they have to work hard at getting the right people in place to make things happen and there's a lot of merit to that because, for instance, cindy lewis is a financer with the you know, recreation finance dot com. If you're using cindy, she has specific underwriters that she will tell you hey, give this person a call. She's worked with them for years and she knows the parameters of what they have. She also territorial areas of what they have, as we do.

Capn Tinsley: 44:29

But that's good information. That's good information, Vanessa, and so you work with lenders that that specialize in this kind of thing that we have a better chance of getting it to go through.

Vanessa Linsley: 44:41

Exactly. Well, you know there's something to that, though Tinsinsley and I want to jump off of the angle on that as well you know you can have five financiers that are actually telling you oh yeah, I can, you can, kelly can talk about this. You can get your financing, you can do this, you can do this, you can do this, you can get your financing, you can do this, you can do this, you can do this. Well, if you have a financer who actually has been able to get deals done and has a better record of getting those deals done, then another one chances are you're going to be able to get your financing at a better rate and actually do a better job at it, because they've got a good history. That good history is important in that world.

Vanessa Linsley: 45:27

Same thing with the insurance world. If you're an insurer and you're actually supporting a lot of people that have had a lot of claims and they've gone through the gamut as individuals, not as fleets. Fleet policies are a whole nother ball of wax for charter companies and other, you know, large independently owned groups of boats. If you are an insurance agent who has not had a lot of claims, the underwriters are more apt to give you a deal and talk to you, because you're doing your homework with your clients and you're making sure that they're following through with what they're telling you. They're doing, they're boats, they've done this, you've checked with them before a hurricane. You're checking with them afterwards and you're saying, hey, how's it going? How'd you come out? Everything come out okay. Did you you know ahead of time? Hey, I wanted to just double check. Let you know where I'm gonna be. I want to let you know I hope you're secured, ready to go by the way, are you following your hurricane plan?

Capn Tinsley: 46:30

exactly that kind of thing. Okay, kelly, are you listening to all this? Oh, I have a plan. I had to write one. Okay, good, I had to too.

Kelly Coonce: 46:40

I gotta go back and read it I have it saved on my computer so I can remember what am I supposed to be checking off my list.

Capn Tinsley: 46:46

It could be the difference of you getting covered or not. Well, I did what I said here and it still got damaged, so you got to pay me, you know they hire a surveyor to come in and say hey, you know, this was.

Vanessa Linsley: 47:02

Sometimes you have situations you can't avoid and it just is what happens. You know that's because the storms have gotten stronger, they've gotten bigger and they've gotten so that they're not as able to be controlled. That's the problem with staying in a Category 5 marina and one that's not Right. That's where things are changing and that's why those companies are also looking at going into insurance.

Capn Tinsley: 47:26

Well, let's talk about interest rates. Interest rates are high right now, so you have where do you? How do you steer people when they're trying to get the best interest rate possible in a time like this?

Vanessa Linsley: 47:36

Once again, I look to the person that I'm going to have doing the financing and I have them talk to that person, because that person, if they've had a good track record they've had a good record and a good history they're going to be able to get you a better rate than what Joe down the street that just started is. And that's a big deal it can be. It can be a big deal for some people, maybe not others. You know, one of the things with boats is that you will find that if you just go to the bank and you've been banking with this bank for 35, 40 years and you've decided I'm going to retire and I'm going sailing, doggone it. Well, you actually go to your bank and you say, hey, I want to get a loan because I'm going to buy a boat. They're going to look at you and they're going to okay, you know, and they're going to turn around and they're going to give you an 11 percent interest rate or something like that, but they don't have any.

Vanessa Linsley: 48:28

It works with boats. They don't understand that it's a depreciating asset. They want to treat it like a house and so your valuation is going to be way off to begin with and they're going to figure your interest rate out based on what you only have personally right there, not off of the history of a lender who's actually trying to help you with those things and how to go through answering some of those questions so that it benefits you. They also don't have the same track record that that lender actually had. That agent with that lending company has a track record and that is huge.

Capn Tinsley: 49:03

Well, you're making a great point and it's the same way with real estate. When a buyer comes to me, it's important that they're talking to the right lender for what we want to do. It's going to be a big waste of time because you know how lenders are. They'll say, oh yeah, no problem, we can do that, and you get 20 days down the road and they can't do it.

Vanessa Linsley: 49:22

Or three days closing and they, they can't do it.

Capn Tinsley: 49:24

Or three days closing and yeah, yeah, and and. So that's where a an experienced broker or experienced real estate agent gonna say that that one's probably going to be a waste of time. Let's go over here. These people do this all day long, every you know, all year, and these folks can get it done with a boat for the best interest possible, and they're they're used to doing boats, so we can. This will be a smooth transaction. So I take it takes. It takes because I know this in real estate. I know this to be true with boat brokers, to talk to an experienced boat broker who can help you, point you in the right direction for all these things. Actually.

Vanessa Linsley: 50:03

Kelly had. Kelly had a lending experience that was not, to begin with, the most pleasant in the world and they kind of were almost throwing their arms up in the air and going we can't do this.

Capn Tinsley: 50:16

Kelly, are you talking to the wrong lender?

Kelly Coonce: 50:18

Well, I mean, it was who we were steered to to begin with. Not from me Avenue. No, to begin with, not from one avenue, no, yeah, not from vanessa. And um, he was just very discouraging. The interest rate was high, they were requiring a really a much larger down payment, um, and he basically was like, yeah, I can, can do this, but he just told us we couldn't afford it.

Capn Tinsley: 50:48

But you know, whatever, so were they used to doing boats? Yeah, it was, Yep, for sure it was still not the best one for you.

Kelly Coonce: 50:56

I think he was trying to scare us away. And then maybe, too, I just felt like we got a kind of a bad feeling about like I don't know if he was trying to just take advantage of us, because we were, we didn't know what we were doing, but we were just like nope, we're not going to do that, let's go another route. And so Vanessa was able to help us find she gave us what happened, Vanessa names.

Vanessa Linsley: 51:19

Well, you know, I have to throw something out there on this as well, because I've heard a couple of other stories about that. But, um, you know, when covid happened, this is the world after code and we can announce it like that. It's the world after covid. I mean, for years in the boating industry, it didn't matter if it was a mega yacht, it didn't matter if it was a mini mega yacht, it didn't matter if it was a mini mega yacht, it didn't matter if it was a 15-foot sailboat or a 15-foot Boston Whaler. You had some of the same lenders that were getting the information out there, providing those loans to the same people.

Vanessa Linsley: 51:57

The world changed after COVID and we had a lot of people that all of a sudden decided well, I'm going to take a new career, I'm going to go into boat loans. And they still haven't figured them out and they can't really help their clients a whole lot, but they have. You know. You were asking earlier, or Hayden was asking what do you think about surveyors that turn deals off? There's more boat lenders right now that turn deals off than there is surveyors, and it's for the what kelly is saying, and they don't have a lot of it. They're. They're not people who have had a lot of experience in this industry, so they kind of start in the middle of the game instead of starting at the bottom of the pile and having to work things all the way up and put them together, and they kind of slide something in the door there thinking that they can do it this way, and everybody throws their arms up in the air and gets really frustrated and turns around in a big circle and big, big hole.

Capn Tinsley: 52:56

Well, and that goes back to I encourage people to hire an experienced boat broker that can help them with these choices, and you're like me. We have to. We're supposed to offer three of this and you choose three of that, and you choose that for liability reasons, but we all know in our industries who can get the job done.

Vanessa Linsley: 53:20

Yeah, and I mean I'll usually give people at least two, if not three, but I've for years worked with some of the same lenders that I'm still always going to send people back to because I know it's a reputable company and I know they have the experience to be able to look outside of the box. There's very few that are in the box. I had a guy. I had a guy just post COVID who was owned a bank and he wanted to take out a loan for a little power boat that was $125,000. Cause he just didn't have cash sitting around. But he was in love with this boat and it was a great boat, the great price. It was a $200,000 boat all day long and he was going to be able to get it for $125,000 because of the situation. So he actually went to his bank that he owned and they wouldn't acknowledge him to take his loan.

Capn Tinsley: 54:19

That doesn't surprise me because that's not their specialty. That's not their specialty. That's not their specialty, yeah it goes back to choosing the right broker. It's going to help you avoid those pitfalls. So, Kelly, tell us what happened with your insurance. I believe you had trouble with your level experience and I've heard this before. Tell us what happened with that.

Kelly Coonce: 54:46

Yeah, I mean because we didn't. We have zero experience, or basically zero. It was hard to get insured. So we I, we had some names through the lender and those people were very nice and they were very knowledgeable. And those people were very nice and they were very knowledgeable, um, but the one wanted to charge us a lot and then have a lot of stipulations, basically yeah.

Kelly Coonce: 55:13

And then the other one was basically like no, I can't do it, um, and that was because of the stipulations with the marina that we're in and the requirements that the marina has for liability, the. They weren't able to give us any kind of umbrella policy and they weren't able to, like, add on any kind of extra liability. So that was a no go. So then we decided, well, we're just going to have to look at like some of the big, bigger companies, like Progressive or geico and um, geico was able to help us and so that was good. I mean, it's expensive, um, but they were at least able to get us insured with less stipulations. Actually, we just had to what kind of stipulations?

Capn Tinsley: 56:01

um no sailing at night or something.

Kelly Coonce: 56:04

I, I, they didn't say that it's basically just an offshore, so we can only go a certain number of miles offshore and we're like, well, that's fine, because we haven't even left the dock yet, so it's great. Um, so we we have. We have to get you off the dock, kelly and it's actually I think like 100 miles offshore.

Vanessa Linsley: 56:24

So it's like a decent amount of miles offshore, hey you can say I don't have any for the caribbean, at 100 miles offshore yeah, we can go to cuba.

Kelly Coonce: 56:31

You know 90 miles to cuba, um, but there's no international sailing, um. I think that's one of the stipulations. And then I think that's pretty much it that and the hurricane plan. There was no stipulations as far as, like, the need for a captain, surprisingly, Whereas the other insurance company and you know rightfully so they were like you should have a captain for X, Y, Z amount of hours. But, yeah, GEICO was able to help us and actually get us a better rate than the other company with less stipulations, and then I was able to put one in my Jeep too.

Capn Tinsley: 57:11

Oh good.

Kelly Coonce: 57:12

Well, Vanessa, was it always like that?

Capn Tinsley: 57:14

Did they always look at the experience of the sailors, or is that just a recent thing?

Vanessa Linsley: 57:20

I don't ever remember when they did not look at the experience of the sailors. There's been different levels that they've taken. But you know I was in a situation when I bought my boat that I've had now. You know I was in a little bit of a different situation and I had problems the very first year when I tried to insure my boat. But I had been a tonnage licensed captain since my 18th birthday and I bought my 42, 51-foot overall boat when I was 21. And I had already sailed halfway around the world. And I'd already sailed halfway around the world and I already had over 70,000 nautical miles under my belt. But yet the insurance company, because I was 21 years old, said no, I mean, I documented every single trip, had a captain sign off on it that I had actually sailed with, had the owner of the vessel signed off.

Vanessa Linsley: 58:25

Interesting, you know I repoed boats in places you weren't supposed to go. You do things when you're younger that you really shouldn't do, but it depends on what's going on and you know sometimes you should be doing them. That's where it comes from. But you know, I remember the very first year when I was insuring my big boat, they actually insisted that I have my parents sign off. Oh my gosh, with something as equity Kelly's laughing.

Vanessa Linsley: 59:00

Along with. They had to sign, they were liable, yeah, and the first year I insured my boat they actually made me now that was a Lloyd's of London policy.

Capn Tinsley: 59:14

So those things eventually get worked out. Like Kelly, you guys, you get some experience, you'll be able to change that situation. Well, let me tell you, kelly, what happened to me. I, uh, I got this boat, um, and a year later the people decided they weren't gonna do my older boat it's a 1998.

Capn Tinsley: 59:34

So I called around and every policy was like they had a problem with me sailing by myself overnight, yeah. And I was like they go well, you could, you, you can do this, but you can't do all this, which was like what I mostly do, you know, like sailing across the globe. I couldn't do that. So I called the broker finally said call Geico, because we just don't have anybody here that can. She said just call, because she kind of whispered it in the phone Call Geico. And so I called Geico and I said do you have a bunch of stipulations? She goes, like what? And I go I don't want to tell you she's laughed and she goes let's go ahead and get it out. And I told her everything I do, she goes, we don't have a problem with that. So I think it's just a matter of calling around, finding, getting a good broker to to help, and sometimes you just have to live with it for a while right larger insurance companies have a tendency to pull things a little bit better.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:00:30

You get over, but we get in boats that are over 40 feet and this is where a lot of things change.

Kelly Coonce: 1:00:36

Over 40 feet and older than 20 years old yeah, I think that's what helped us, that our boat was a fine size, not too small, not big and that it was newer.

Capn Tinsley: 1:00:48

The boat wasn't the problem. They had questions about the marina and you guys' experience, so thank God it wasn't had to do with the boat. You got a while before you have to worry about that, right.

Kelly Coonce: 1:00:58

Yes, yes.

Capn Tinsley: 1:01:00

So who knows what will happen when I renew? But there's always that chance, right? But Vanessa, vanessa is always going to be on hand to tell us who's just come in the market. That's going to be, I mean, and that. But they were telling me that now I have my captain's license and now I'm just up to 25 ton and had all this experience going across the Gulf by myself, you know at the, you know at the, you know overnight, 48 hours, whatever, and they still were bringing that stuff up. But it's just a numbers thing. For them, it's a business, you know, I understand. But you just, you gotta, you kind of have to. You can't give up.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:01:39

No, you can't give up. And you got to dig your heels in and you know you got to talk to people and you got to talk to people all over the place. You know I for years and years and years I used an insurance broker that that, cindy um, actually turned me on to up in annapolis and I ended up having multiple people with charter fleets that ended up insuring with them and they love that. And you know the former owner of the charter company that I worked with and ran. She's now doing insurance and over in the middle of the Great Lakes though now, and you know she recognized the need in the market for it and so she still plugs in and puts things there. But you know there's a huge gap in the market and there are some people who have been talking for a while about filling that gap and hopefully something's going to change. The hardest part is is that our weather is not the same as it was 20 years ago.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:02:35

Everybody can recognize that and you know that is pretty much besides the economy. What is running the insurance market?

Capn Tinsley: 1:02:43

well, we went, we. I think it's cyclical, like you said, like there were, there were like here we didn't have a major hurricane for 16 years, um, and and then now it's like every year there's something, either close by or something, but hopefully we'll go back to no activity for years on end.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:03:02

We're gonna going to have it on land in your years. It's all relative to it, but the size of the storms and the intensity of the storms is what is drastically changing.

Capn Tinsley: 1:03:12

So Admin Logistics has a question here. We kind of did cover this, but what would you say? Find a good broker. It depends on the boat, it depends on the marina, it depends on your experience, but it can be done. Is that a good summary?

Kelly Coonce: 1:03:28

I would say persistence, yeah, so just like, if you have a list of people, get a list of people or insurance companies, rather to call and call them all and don't give up and buy a new boat and don't give up and buy a new boat. Yeah, there you go.

Capn Tinsley: 1:03:48

So you don't have that part, right? Yeah Well, there was a lady here who wanted to buy this, I don't know. It was over 50 feet and the insurance company goes no, no, no. So you have to get this size first, own it for two or three years, whatever it is, and then upgrade. So they'll tell you what needs to happen.

Kelly Coonce: 1:04:15

And I mean that was so. We had actually looked not at much bigger boats but at older boats Like we love. The old Tiana's, like the Vancouver 42, was on our short list Heavy, sturdy, beautiful, full of teak which I went. The the opposite was like no teak because I didn't want to take care of it. But the reason that we didn't pursue that a it was older and we knew that we were going to already struggle with getting insurance and financing and that neither of those things would probably be possible with an older boat.

Capn Tinsley: 1:04:41

So now what if uh?

Vanessa Linsley: 1:04:44

with older boats, though there are still some places you can get it. Yeah, I mean, it just would have been even harder, and it was already hard enough.

Kelly Coonce: 1:04:51

Plus, we love our boat.

Capn Tinsley: 1:04:54

Admin Logistics. I highly recommend that you call if you're in the market. Uh, let's see, Um putting up your information. Call Vanessa Linsley Edwards, yacht Sales, 305-680-9986. She's the one in the middle here. Yeah, so she'll help you out. Um, so, uh, let's see. I just had a question in my head, oh, oh okay. So say, kelly and uh, mike were just going to be liveaboards. How much of a difference does that make? Like you know, oh, we're just gonna, we're just gonna buy this boat and live and live on it.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:05:34

We're not really planning on doing much sailing you know that's going to be up to them. But there are a lot of things, um, you know that's almost a perfect boat, and and I say that because that boat has so much storage, it has so much space, it has the capability of even two people I mean for insurance purposes like, do they treat you different?

Capn Tinsley: 1:05:55

yeah, it's huge. Do they believe you when you say that?

Kelly Coonce: 1:06:00

so so we don't? We don't live on our boat, right, we don't live on our boat.

Capn Tinsley: 1:06:06

Right, we don't live on our boat.

Kelly Coonce: 1:06:07

Ah, okay, yeah, but I'm okay. Hypothetically, I have another access Okay.

Capn Tinsley: 1:06:14

So hypothetically, a customer says I want to buy this boat and I'm really just honestly just going to live on it. Did this insurance company take their word for it? I guess they just say, okay, but if you're outside the marina it's not going to cover it.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:06:27

You mean like port risk.

Capn Tinsley: 1:06:30

I don't know.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:06:31

That sounds right.

Capn Tinsley: 1:06:33

Port risk Okay.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:06:35

You can get an indent in a policy, for instance, if you're doing some long-term repair work to your boat or you're doing where you might have had a little ailment or something happened, where you are not going to be leaving the marina and you know you're not oh, this is good all your insurance company and you can say I want to ask you if I can get port risk insurance.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:06:58

Well, that port risk insurance, they stick to it. You know where you can get a little bit of reduction in your pricing that year, but you are not going to leave that marina. If you leave that marina, you will not be covered. Okay, yeah, port risk is a capability. However, port risk is not designed for a liveaboard doing something maintenance wise in the work, and a lot of times they want to have an inch uh, uh, a surveyor, look at the condition valuation of the boat and then they'll have them come back later on and look at the capital improvement that's been made.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:07:35

A good example for that many times is going to be someone with teak decks. Your teak decks need to be rebedded and they need to be need to be resealed. So, resealing them. Okay, are you screwing and gluing? Are you just gluing? Are you doing epoxy coats? Are you doing glasswork underneath? You've got a series of different things, but you have to have conditions correct in doing that. You've got to be able to have awnings up and doing that, you got to protect the decks in between times doing that, and, and that could be up to six months. No matter what, you're not going to go sailing when you're in the middle of doing that, and that is the purpose of Port Risk.

Capn Tinsley: 1:08:12

Now what about in the situation with Island Spirit that spends six months on the hard right now? They kept it in Antigua.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:08:23

They have the capability of getting port risk if their insurance company will agree to it. For that period of time that the boat is actually on the heart, there's a couple of insurance companies that will agree to it and you have to ask them for it. They're not going to offer it. Is it a big difference? It can be. It depends on the company. It can be. It depends on the company thousands.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:08:47

Um, it could be a couple of grand. I mean, yeah, worth asking. Yeah, it's worth asking because, if you have, if you have a policy that runs you seventy two hundred dollars a year and I'm going to give you my boat as an example for this yeah, a couple years ago, I went under port risk and it was after, uh, the hurricane. In 2017, I got hit by a tornado and the only boat in the marina that got hit and it was after the hurricane in 2017.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:09:05

I got hit by a tornado and the only boat in the marina that got hit and it bounced over the back deck and it was in another marina and so that next year I had started cleaning everything up, done everything. But I wanted to go ahead because I was not going anywhere was cleaning stuff up. So I went to the insurance company and I said I want to get Port Risk on the boat. They agreed, saved me $1,500. Nice.

Capn Tinsley: 1:09:31

That's definitely worth it. Okay, port Risk, I learned something new today. Okay, so this one. Here's another question Can you give any advice on courses to take and I'll give my two cents after you guys answer Prior to purchasing your boat, would any of the ASA courses be beneficial, or is it best to hire a captain after the purchase?

Vanessa Linsley: 1:09:53

Go? Multiple answers to that. So we have ASA here in the United States. We also have US sailing. Us is not geared only towards racing the between asa and us sailing and I have been a licensed instructor for both. Sweet is that? Asa, when you take those courses, you prove capability. Us is a little bit more direct. You have to prove competency. There is a difference, and the difference is one of them. They expect you to master the field, and the other, they expect you to simply demonstrate that you can do it.

Capn Tinsley: 1:10:40

Okay.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:10:41

It's a difference between an 80 on a test and a 95 on a test.

Capn Tinsley: 1:10:45

And I'm not saying US sailing would be the 95. Yeah, is that what you're saying?

Vanessa Linsley: 1:10:50

It's about the skills, not about the test itself. It's about how you.

Capn Tinsley: 1:10:53

I understand, I understand.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:10:55

Yeah. So the ASA courses are the older ones in this country and they are geared towards everybody Kids aging the whole nine yards. But they also did not completely advance as the boating world has advanced in. What happened with some of the skills? The very first and easiest example is man overboard. Asa for years was a figure eight. Sail back and pick them up. Part of my background is extreme sports and physiology. You know that it's already been proven, was proven many years ago. Mentally, you see the boat sailing away from you, you immediately panic and boom. That's when you drown. Us sailings first. Rule of the road when there's a man overboard, Point them, Stop the boat, Stop the boat, Stop the boat. Bam Makes more sense Huge difference.

Capn Tinsley: 1:11:54

Yeah.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:11:55

So Totally different thought processes and how the teaching is. Both of them are great school courses. Both of them are wonderful. I think, in my opinion, it is relative to where your sailing is ultimately going to be that you're going to be doing, sooner than later, as to which of those sets of courses you are going to want to take, and yes, they are hugely beneficial. There's a great new US sailing school down here in Key West, charisma Sailing. So there's a lot of ASA schools around because you're going to see, they're also somewhat territorial. There's always been more ASA stuff in the southeast and on the eastern seaboard than there has US sailing. Us sailing has always been more prominent and more prevalent on the west coast in the Pacific.

Capn Tinsley: 1:12:40

Okay, well, let me give my two cents. I did take ASA. I took three ASA courses before I got my first boat ASA 101, 103, and 104. And now, as far as the other option and I look at that, if you've got courses but the hiring a captain, I do know several captains that will help you move the boat from point A to point B and go with you and show you how to use your boat, and I think that's a good idea too.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:13:17

That is a worthy thing to do. The problem is somebody has a captain that they hire. They don't have a boat yet.

Capn Tinsley: 1:13:28

No, this. Well, this is the hire, the captain after the purchase.

Capn Tinsley: 1:13:30

That's the question. Oh, that's, and and and I did, like blaine, uh, he, he moves blaine parks. He, he moves a lot of, uh, island packets, like he's the guy that everybody calls with island packets and that's one of his services. I will help you learn your boat right and I think that's a great. I mean, do both. You know, yeah, why not? I know cecilia has done that. She has helped move a boat for somebody and sailed with them, um, you know, and taught them, was trying to do her best to teach them their boat. You know, it's good to learn your boat.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:14:03

That's what I've been 60% of my life doing.

Capn Tinsley: 1:14:07

Yeah, yeah, so they can hire you Not right now.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:14:11

But Okay, my body's trying to get it together.

Capn Tinsley: 1:14:15

What's your feedback on that, Kelly?

Kelly Coonce: 1:14:20

So we didn't take any courses.

Capn Tinsley: 1:14:23

We just dove in, there's a lot of people who don't and they just jump right in and they work.

Kelly Coonce: 1:14:29

Not to say that you know, never say, never Like, cause I have talked about it. Um, Mike is a little bit more like the best, the best is just to do it yourself, which I get, that too, but not opposed to like. I think we both agree. Hiring a captain so we can learn on the boat is probably the route to go, because every boat is so different.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:14:52

So you know, it just makes sense and we're working on trying to do something here. There's another couple that's kind of in the same situation as Mike and Kelly are, that are buying a boat. That's down here as well, and we're through Terry, through Terry Ivins. Yeah, yeah, we're looking at trying to. Celia was the surveyor for both of them and we're looking at trying.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:15:13

Small world in this sailing community. We're looking at how to put both of these couples of folks together Because one. I think they're going to enjoy each other's company immensely, especially doing some buddy boat things to begin with, because this is and enjoy each other's company immensely, especially doing some buddy boat things to begin with. This is a great place to do that and we're trying to get scheduling set up when they're done here at the end of January so that we can start going out and everybody can start learning their own boats on their own, but have a couple of other people around with some other input added to it.

Capn Tinsley: 1:15:42

Is this something you would facilitate? Or you just say have at it.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:15:49

I would be on board with with them for the you know for the quite or or another person that I would entrust to do that with.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:15:58

You know, a good instructor is going to have four ways of describing the same thing, and you watch your students, you watch your folks and you watch their facial expressions and you look at their frustration levels or their experience levels and how much they're enjoying themselves and you know that you've actually accomplished conveying to them what it is that they're trying to grasp and learn and are comfortable doing it. And that's the whole trick in doing it safely. So because everybody's got their own way of doing things. So when you have people on their own boats, they're going to develop their own way of doing things, but they're going to develop their own way a little bit quicker than just on a lesson. I still think that the ASA and the US sailing for the beginnings of the basics are a phenomenal route to go. For years I did instruction and on-your-own-boat teaching Nice, and that was through a couple of separate schools that have both gone by their way sides over the course of years.

Capn Tinsley: 1:17:02

But I did that when I was a teenager, all the way up until I was in my just a few years ago well, you know, I took all those courses and, um, when I took my island packet 27 to the keys and back that first time, wow, I learned so much. Uh, you know, you take the courses, but then when you're out there you're really learning how, what makes this. You know you take the courses, but then when you're out there you're really learning what makes the wind move the sails, I mean move the boat. You really learn it. Then it's all in a book at first, but when you get out I came back I just felt like I really was at one with the boat. And then the next trip I even got more and more familiar with it.

Capn Tinsley: 1:17:43

So, like you said, kelly, just going out there and doing it. Some people aren't brave enough to do that, but if you could just get help leaving the dock, you're not going to hit anything. Just get out there and start doing it. Just get away from everybody and start doing stuff. They've got a bow. Yeah, we've got a bow. We don't know how to use it necessarily, but we're working on it.

Capn Tinsley: 1:18:05

Huh, they've got a valve. Yeah, they've got a valve. Okay, we don't know how to use it necessarily, but we're working on it. It can be a little intimidating leaving the dock the first time. Yeah, you just got to make yourself do it.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:18:16

And you've got to have the conditions to be able to do it in and not sit there and push the doors, you know.

Capn Tinsley: 1:18:22

Yeah, good conditions are important. Yeah Well, we've been on here for over an hour. This has been a great conversation. I hope it's been helpful to people. Kelly, I put this up on. If you look above your heads, you also see the audio side of things. So the audio version goes up too, on about 20 audio podcast sites, so people can go and some people will be listening to this. The audio version goes up too on about 20 audio podcast sites, so people can go and some people will be listening to this. But it will also be posted on these other areas and all the clips will come up too. But if anybody has any questions for Vanessa, let me put your contact information up. She would love to help you out, help you buy a boat. You see, she's not going to just sell you any old boat. She's going to listen to you and come up with the best situation for you. Isn't that right, vanessa?

Vanessa Linsley: 1:19:21

Yeah, and it's not necessarily going to be one of my listings.

Capn Tinsley: 1:19:25

Right, no, and be one of my listings, right, no? And you do have three listings and I just wanted to show how you it's not all million-dollar boats, it's different price ranges. Here's the Island Packet, so that one's $475. And then we've got the LaPari Catamaran. Yeah, let me open this up a little bit. So we've got well, I've got to go back We've got this boat here, this big old powerboat, 55 foot. That's a partial fish boat. And then we've got this one, we've got the Island Packet, then we've got this Catamaran. Cat says you're pretty diverse on what you offer. And here's some of the boats you've sold.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:20:14

Yep, I'm pretty diverse, you can handle it all. Look at that. I listed a Meridian today, actually a Meridian 46. Great looper boat. A Meridian 46. Great looper boat. I've also got a 35 foot sport fish that's already located in Marathon ready to go.

Capn Tinsley: 1:20:32

So the looper boat, is that like a trawler or something I know?

Vanessa Linsley: 1:20:37

nothing about power boats. It's a motor yacht, it's a mini motor yacht. It's a Meridian 46.

Capn Tinsley: 1:20:43

Okay, it sounds like a condo on water. It is a condo on water, but it's a meridian 46. Okay, it sounds. It sounds like a condo on water, or some people's in the sailing world say it's a stink pot. Those power boats are stink pots. They have their own.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:20:59

Everybody has their interests and it's a matter of uh, you know what?

Capn Tinsley: 1:21:03

what some people want more than others, and I'm amazed that you can talk about all these with such knowledge. So very impressive. What's that?

Vanessa Linsley: 1:21:15

It's all about parts and pieces in them.

Capn Tinsley: 1:21:17

Parts- and pieces.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:21:18

They're all fiberglass. Some of them have sails, some of them don't. They all have certain kinds of rigging. They all have separate electrical systems, plumbing systems.

Capn Tinsley: 1:21:25

Some are gas, some are diesel, some are old, some are new. Okay, well, thank you guys for coming on. Kellys, thank you for rushing home. Well, you kind of work at home. But rushing from your work, for coming on and sharing your experience. We want to have you and Mike back and tell you more about your experience, because I think it's very interesting and I'll be down there soon to see you guys. Maybe I could go out on the boat with you guys.

Kelly Coonce: 1:21:51

What do you think?

Vanessa Linsley: 1:21:52

Yeah, we'd love that, me and Vanessa. I think we should get them out sailing for their first go around. We got to wait for this cold front to get through here.

Capn Tinsley: 1:22:00

I am not a cold weather sailor, it's just I like sun and warm, you know.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:22:06

Still going to be in the mid-60s. But it's just this bloody north wind. When it comes around the corner it can get you pretty quick.

Capn Tinsley: 1:22:15

Yeah, it's pretty cold here right now too. Oh wait, let's see. I think we might have one more comment. Oh, look at this. I'll be in touch, Vanessa. Thank you, Admin logistics. It's a dog lover, that's all we know.

Vanessa Linsley: 1:22:30

It's a little dog there, all right.

Capn Tinsley: 1:22:32

Well, with that I'm going to take us out. Let me get it all queued up. And what do we say? Salty abandon Out, salty Abandon out.